香格纳画廊将于2017年5月27日举行阿彼察邦·韦拉斯哈古，泰国当代最受国际瞩目的艺术家在中国的首次个展《纪念碑》。此次展览将展出其10年(2007-2017年)创作历程的16套精选作品。所有作品均为国内首次展出。

　　ShanghART is pleased to present the first solo exhibition in China by the internationally acclaimed Thai artist Apichatpong Weerasethakul. For Monuments the artist selected 16 sets of works from 2007 to present including video installations, music and photographic works mostly never before seen in China.

　　开幕 Opening

　　May 27, 4pm - 7pm

　　展期 Duration

　　May 28, 2017 - July 27, 2017 (11am to 6pm, Closed on Monday)

　　地点 Location

　　徐汇区西岸龙腾大道2555号10号楼，香格纳画廊

　　ShanghART, Westbund, 2555-10 Longteng Avenue, Xuhui District, Shanghai

　　www.shanghartgallery.com

　　阿彼察邦·韦拉斯哈古 Apichatpong Weerasethakul (Courtesy Kick the Machine Films)

　　2016年在清迈拜访阿彼察邦时，他正在编写自己最新的画册。与其说是本画册，不如称它为“可以阅读的纸上电影”。阿彼察邦也建议，要了解他最近的想法和创作状态，可以看这本书。介于展览开幕将近，我们节选了画册中阿彼察邦与两位策展人的谈话。根据谈话中涉及到的影响他创作的多个因素，以及对他影响至深的良师益友。

　　节选的对谈将分两条微信推送。第一条微信是艺术家与策展人、好友Gridthiya的对谈，从艺术家的生活本身出发，了解对阿彼察邦产生影响的人与事;而另外一条则基于阿彼察邦与泰特美术馆策展人Andrea Lissoni的谈话，以艺术创作线索为主，通过特别的元素解析其作品隐藏的深意。希望在展览开幕前，能让大家更多的了解不仅限于电影创作中的阿彼察邦。

　　Apichatpong was writing his latest catalogue when we were visiting him in Chiang Mai last year. He suggested that we could understand his current thoughts and the state of his creation through this catalogue or “readable film on paper”. Just before the opening of his solo exhibition in Shanghai, we would like to share excerpts of Apichatpong’s conversations with two curators in two posts.

　　Through a conversation with Gridthiya, a curator and the artist's close friend, the first post is about Apichatpong's life and personal development through people and stories which have influenced the artist.

　　Based on the talk with Andrea Lissoni, who is the senior curator at Tate Modern, the second one follows the traces of Apichatpong's creation and his works to reveal the hidden potent meaning through the often-seen elements in his works.

PART 1

与Gridthiya Gaweewong的对话

Conversation with Gridthiya Gaweewong

　　Gridthiya Gaweewong曾与阿彼察邦在1997年成立了曼谷实验电影节，目前任职于曼谷吉姆·汤普森艺术中心，担任艺术总监

　　Gridthiya Gaweewong founded the Bangkok Experimental Film Festival with Apichatpong in 1997, and is currently the Artistic Director of the Jim Thompson Art Center, Bangkok.

　　GG: Gridthiya Gaweewong

　　AW: Apichatpong Weerasethakul

/

生活维度

The State of Life

2015年12月31日

Khamvongsa酒店，万象，老挝

　　GG:当我们在为2016年的到来倒数的同时也在讨论下一年的工作。因为David Teh的婚礼我们在老挝的万象见过。我们为什么要在这里见面呢?在这个即将结束的年份里，我们的日程表简直如同地狱，对吧?

　　AW:是的，我们总是见不到彼此。但是在今天这也许是一件好事，因为这样我们可以离开我们惯常的工作模式，这样我们的脑子就会保持警惕。

　　GG:是否这就是你的工作方式?当你撰写剧本或者在做一个项目的时候，你喜欢在哪里工作?

　　AW:很多地方。我曾经会去孔敬或者大城府的小酒店。我也经常在开车的时候得到很多的灵感。

　　GG:为什么?

　　AW:当我开车的时候，我的脑子会尝试去把地理形势构想出来。我认为这使我的大脑处于动态之中。就像有一些人会在他们洗澡的时候得到灵感一样。

　　GG:我洗澡也为这样的原因。或者当我躺在床上的时候也会得到灵感。你会读很多书来获取灵感吗?有一些人从音乐和电影中汲取灵感。但是你读很多书，对吧?你会读什么类型的书?

　　AW:在孔敬长大的时候我读过一些科幻小说。那个时候翻译小说是杂志里非常流行的一种类型，比如说Mi Ti Tee See(《第四维度》)或是说Tak Sa(《技能》)。我热爱艾萨克·阿西莫夫，雷·布莱伯利和亚瑟·查理斯·克拉克。泰国的书里我曾经喜欢 Sri Daoruang的作品。我感觉和她所描绘的气氛有所共鸣。Sri Daoruang嫁给了曾经写过《一滴玻璃》(Kaew Yod Diao)的Suchart Sawadsri。这是一部关于蓝领工人，或者说住在铁路沿线的人的非常现实主义的小说。在孔敬有一条铁路，那也是我常常想象的故事发生所在地。同样的，当我仰望夜空时，我会想着那些科幻小说故事。这两种类型似乎并不互补，但是对于幼时的我而言他们互相之间是非常契合的。

　　GG:之后你也开始读一些关于达摩的宗教书了对吗?

　　AW:在我父亲去世的时候我看了很多，大概是2003年到2004年。那个时候我在拍《热带疾病》 (Sud Pralad  / Tropical Malady)。

阿彼察邦在清迈的生活一角  A corner of Apichatpong‘s home in Chiang Mai

　　Courtesy of Kick the Machine Films

　　December 31, 2015

　　Khamvongsa Hotel, Vientiane, Laos

　　GG: We're counting down to the year 2016 while discussing work for the upcoming year. We're meeting in Vientiane, Laos, because of David Teh's wedding. Why did we have to meet here? Our schedules have been hell this past year, right?

　　AW: Yes,we keep missing each other. But perhaps that's a good thing for today because when we get out of our usual working routines, our brains stay alert.

　　GG: Is that how you work? When you write a script or work on a project, where do you like to work?

　　AW: Many places. I used to go to Khon Kaen or Ayutthaya, and stay in small hotels. I also get lots of ideas while driving.

　　GG:Why?

　　AW: When I drive, my brain is trying to map out the geography. I think it sets my brain in motion. Some people get that when they take a shower.

　　GG:I take showers for that reason. Or, ideas also come to me when I'm lying in bed. Do you read a lot for inspiration? Some people get inspiration from movies or music. But you read a lot, right? What kinds of books do you read?

　　AW:When I was growing up in Khon Kaen, I read science fiction. It was when translations were really popular in magazines, like Mi Ti TeeSee (Fourth Dimension) or Tak Sa (Skill).I loved Isaac Asimov, Ray Bradbury, and Arthur C. Clarke. Regarding Thai books, I liked Sri Daoruang. I felt in tune with the atmosphere she painted. Sri Daoruang, who's married to Suchart Sawadsri, wrote Kaew Yod Diao (A Drop of Glass). It's largely realist, about blue-collar workers or people who live by the rail road tracks. There's a train track that goes through Khon Kaen and I would often conjure up scenes from herbooks. Similarly, when I look at the night sky, I think of science fiction stories. The two genres don't seem to complement each other, but they went really well together for me as a kid.

　　GG: Later, you started reading religious books about Dharma too?

　　AW: I read lots of them around 2003-2004 when my father died. I was making

　　Sud Pralad (Tropical Malady) at the time.

/

书

Book, the necessity of life

　　GG: 你在芝加哥艺术学院读书的时候看了些什么书?有什么理论方面的东西吗?

　　AW:我看了很多小说。特别是一些英译日文小说：三岛由纪夫，谷崎润一郎和川端康成。其中我所爱的一部经典是谷崎润一郎的《阴翳礼赞》。

谷崎润一郎《阴翳礼赞》

Junichiro Tanizaki, In Praise of Shadows (1977)

　　GG:每个人都应该读读那本书。

　　AW:对吧，我也觉得。这本书不仅仅联系了艺术和建筑，还用了一种电影化的语言写了出来。我热爱他是因为它涵盖了三个我所喜爱的领域。

　　GG:那现在你还在看哪些作家的作品?

　　AW:我还在看科幻小说和散文，还有Noi Inthanon(1906-1963, 泰国作家)的作品。

　　GG: 你是什么时候发现Noi Inthanon 的?

　　AW:大概在90年代后期他的书被重新印刷的时候。我喜欢那些有野生动物的封面：老虎，公牛，蛇，就是那些你绝对不会在野外碰到的动物。(笑)

　　GG:那《Petch Pra Uma》呢?

　　AW:那本书一直没能吸引我。

　　GG: 很奇怪，你不读Panomatian(《Petch Pra Uma》的作者)而是选择了Noi Inthanon。

　　AW: Noi Inthanon的封面更棒。

　　GG: 对了，你知道吗，给Noi Inthanon画封面的那个插画师是一个艺术家。我忘了他的名字，但是我记得他师从Silpa Bhirasri。他画老虎之类的东西。作品被曼谷的当代艺术馆收藏了。就是它。我知道了。我以前看到它的时候我就联想起你的作品。场景也是在丛林之中。我认为他的名字应该是叫Chalerm Nakiraks。我不记得了。我要去查一下。我开始从你读到东西里看到了发展方向---在《热带疾病》里经常出现的与丛林景观的联系。现在我知道你在做每一部电影的时候都在读些什么。我可以看到这些书的痕迹是如何融入到你的电影之中的。

　　AW:在家乡孔敬长大的时候我读了各种各样的书。泰国连环画，日本漫画还有收音机肥皂剧。

阿彼察邦与他的狗  Apichatpong with his dog

　　Courtesy of Kick the Machine Films

　　GG:What did you read when you were in art school in Chicago? Any theory?

　　AW:I read a lot of novels, especiallyJapanese books in English: Mishima,

　　Tanizaki, and Kawabata. A classic that I love is Junichiro Tanizaki's In Praise of

　　Shadows.

　　GG: Everyone should read that.

　　AW: Right? It relates toboth art and architecture, and he writes in a cinematic

　　style. I love that thisbook covers the three disciplines that I love.

　　GG:Whose work are you still following these days?

　　AW:I've been reading science fiction and non-fiction, and Noi lnthanon.

　　GG: When did you discover Noi Inthanon?

　　AW: In the late '90s when his books were being reprinted. I love the covers with wild animals: tigers, bulls, snakes, animals you definitely shouldn't encounter in the wilderness. (Laughs.)

　　GG:What about Petch Pra Uma?

　　AW:No, I never got into it.

　　GG: It's strange that you read Noi Inthanon rather than Panomtian (author of Petch Pra Uma).

　　AW: Noi lnthanon has better covers.

　　GG: You know what? The illustrator of Noi Inthanon's covers is an artist. I forgot his name but he studied with Silpa Bhirasri.He drew tiger sand such.They're now in the collection at the Museumof Contemporary Art, Bangkok. That's it. I get it. When I saw it I thought of your work. The scene in the jungle.I think it should be Chalerm Nakiraks.I don't remember. I'd have to check. I'm starting to see where this is going from what you read-the connection to the jungle scenes are most apparent in the film Sud Pralad (Tropical Malady). Now that I know what you were reading while making each film, I can see how traces of the books make it into your films.

　　AW:I read them all when I was growing up in Khon Kaen. Thai comics for five baht. Japanese manga and radio soap operas too.

阿彼察邦《热带疾病》电影截图，2004

ApichatpongWeerasethakul, Tropical Malady (still), 2004

Courtesy Kick theMachine Films

/

与本尼迪克特·安德森

With Benedict Anderson

　　GG:你什么时候遇到本尼迪克特·安德森?

　　AW:在《热带疾病》完成以后。

　　GG:那时你读过他的《想象的共同体》这本书?

　　AW:并没有，甚至见过他以后也没有。我看不太懂。这本书对我来说理解有些困难。我比较倾向他的另外一本《比较的幽灵》，这本书比较了东南亚以及世界其他地区的历史。这本书容易理解，以一种清楚的细节阐述历史。

　　GG:When did you meet Benedict Anderson?

　　AW: After making Sud Pralad.

　　GG:Had you read Imagined Communities at that point?

　　AW:Not really, not even after meeting him. I couldn't understand it. It's a very difficult book for me.I prefer another book, The Specter of Comparisons, which compares the history of Southeast Asia and the rest of the world. This book is easy to follow, and history is explained in clear detail.

　　阿彼察邦·韦拉斯哈古 Apichatpong Weerasethakul | 迪尔巴 Dillbar | Collaborated with Chaisiri Jiwarangsan |  单路视频装置 Single-channel video installation | 2013 | 10 minutes | 2016年展出于香格纳画廊20周年群展 《Holzwege》 Exhibited in the 20th anniversary of ShanghART exhibition Holzwege in 2016 | 现场图 Installation View

　　GG:你和他讨论过他的这本书吗?

　　AW:没有，我们讨论男人和各种各样的事情。(笑)但是安德森教会我一件事情。他说“Joei (朋友对AW的昵称)——走着，不要跑。”另外一件事情让我印象深刻，他不明白为什么人们在电梯里时总是要去按“关门”。为什么他们不能等?就是像这样的小细节，让我喜欢他。蒂姆(艺术家的伴侣)和我在拍隆屋寺(Wat Phai Rong Wua)协助过他，在素攀武里府的这个寺庙有很多描绘了有关地狱中不同场景的雕塑。我曾以为是安德森想太多，但是这本书实在是不可思议的精彩。有时我认为他并没有在谈论这座寺庙，而是其他的一些事情。做调研，挑战一些对僧侣禁令的概念看起来更像是重点。这就好像拍一部电影，关注的是行动而非内容。

　　GG: Did you ever talk about his books with him?

　　AW: No, we talked about men and sundry things. (Laughs). Anderson taught me one thing, though. He said, "Joei-walk,don't run." Another thing I remember well is that he didn't understand why people always pressed the "Door Close" button in the elevator. Why can't they wait? It's because of small details like this, which made me like him. Teem andI helped him at a monastery, the Phai Rong Wua Temple, which had sculptures depicting the different levels of hell, in Suphan Buri. I think Anderson was thinking too much, but the book turned out to be incredibly beautiful. Sometimes I think he wasn't really talking about that temple but about something else. Conducting research and challenging the notions that are forbidden to monks seemed more like the point. It's like making a film and caring about the action more than the content.

阿彼察邦·韦拉斯哈古 Apichatpong Weerasethakul | 影子 Self-Protraite (Shadows) |  摄影 Photograph | Inkjet | 2016 | 73.3x130cm | 2016年展出于巴塞尔迈阿密艺博会香格纳展位 Exhibited in ShanghART Booth last year Art Basel Miami

　　GG：你觉得安德森影响了你吗?

　　AW：他让我对过程以及政治对比产生了兴趣。他把我比作吉•普米萨(Chit Phumisak，泰国思想家，历史学家，作家以及诗人)。我完全不赞同安德森对《热带疾病》的分析，但是这促使我尽力去明白他为什么这样思考。他使我在政治方面觉醒，即便我们从未直接讨论过政治。我经常给他写信，这个过程就像是在写日记。

　　GG:安德森每次都回信吗?

　　AW: 是的，他写的非常优美。

　　GG:与像安德森这样的人保持友谊是很重要的。作为一个思想者，你需要一些能够和你在相同思考维度的人交流。艺术家以及创意工作者不应该只和他们艺术圈的朋友谈话。他们应该和来自不同领域以及专业的学者交谈;否则他们就会陷在自己的世界里。应该要敢于离开自己的舒适区。就像你要到一些别的地方写剧本一样。

　　AW: 我很难过他已经去世了;难过在于我在拍《梦幻墓园》(Rak Ti Khon Kaen / Cemetery of Splendor)的时候没能联系他。当我再次联系他的时候，他刚刚去世。一些人邀请我聊一些或者写一些关于他的事情时我都拒绝了，因为我做不到。当知道他离世的时候，我感觉很空。我试图表现的正常，欺骗我自己;我和男友一起去看了一场电影，但是我满脑子都是他。

　　GG: Do you think Anderson has influenced you?

　　AW:He made me interested in process and the politics of comparisons. He compared me to Chit Phumisak. I completely disagree with Anderson's analysis of Sud Pralad, but it prompted me to try to understand why he thought that. He awakened me in regards to politics, even if we never talked directly about politics. I wrote to him often and the process was like writing a diary.

　　GG: Did Anderson always respond?

　　AW:Yes, and he wrote beautifully.

　　GG:The kinds ofpeople you keep as friends are important. As a thinker,you need someone who can communicate with you on the same cerebral level. Artists and creative types shouldn't just talk to their artist friends.They should talk to intellectuals, people across fields and professions; otherwise they'd just be stuckin their own world. One should stepout of their comfort zone. It's like how you have to go somewhere else to write a script.

　　AW: I'm terribly sad that he passed away; sad that I didn't contact him when I was making Rak Ti Khon Kaen (Cemetery of Splendor). When I got in touch with him again, it wasn't long before he died. I turned down occasions when people invited me to talk or write about him because I really couldn't do it. When I found out about his death, I felt empty. I tried to act normal, to fool myself; went out to watch a movie with my boyfriend, but I was thinking about him the whole time.

Courtesy of Kick the Machine Films

　　GG:你过去的作品大多关于你的家庭和生活。最近好像有所拓展。

　　AW:大概因为我做了更多艺术作品，需要我去做研究和旅行，所以我的作品成为了伊森(Isaan)地区的集体回忆。

　　GG:你的人生改变了吗?

　　AW:改变了，但不是好的改变。看你怎么去看吧。我曾经更快乐，因为我什么也不懂。我知道越多就越悲伤。我有种被教育所背叛的感觉。

　　GG:Your older work used to be largely about your own family and your own life. The work has expanded lately.

　　AW: It's probably because I've been creating more art, which requires research and travel, so my work has turned into a collective memory of the lsaan region.

　　GG: Has your life changed?

　　AW: It has changed, but not in a good way. It depends on how you look at it. I used to be happier because I was more ignorant. As I gained knowledge, I also gained sadness. I feel betrayed by education.

工作中的阿彼察邦  Apichatpong at work

Courtesy of Kick the Machine Films

未完待续...

Stay tuned for PART 2