艾忠亮于2019年9月-10月在柏林艺术驻留项目及访谈

　　Ai zhongliang's art residency project and interview in Berlin from September to October 2019

　　马永峰：首先谈一下这次你在柏林的个人项目《反射》，你是如何构思这件装置作品的？作品的实施和驻留空间本身的政治语境如何有机地内嵌在一起的，也就是说你如何思考自己的作品和前东德秘密警察审讯中心之间的关系？

　　Ma Yongfeng: Let's first talk about your personal project "Reflection" in Berlin. How did you conceive this installation work? How is the execution of the work organically embedded in the political context of the residency itself, that is, how do you perceive the relationship between your work and the former East German Secret Police Interrogation Center?

前东德政治犯监狱（柏林弗里恩瓦尔德大街17号）

Former East German political prisoners prison

前东德政治犯监狱围墙

Former East German prison wall for political prisoners

　　艾忠亮：这次柏驻留项目，我被安排在一个前东德的监狱的艺术区内，工作室在前东德秘密警察审讯中心的二楼，我的确没想到，在来柏林前，我是有一个方向性的思考，和当下正在发生的香港事件发生关系，这也仅限于一个大方向的设定，没有很具体的方案。

　　现在这个监狱已经成为柏林免费参观的一个场所，几乎毎天都有大量的学生去参观，这到出乎我的意料，因为这里的情境和记忆中我小时候读书时，毎年的11月27号，学校都会组织我们去重庆的渣子洞、白公馆参观的情境很相似。

　　柏林这座城市的历史位置决定了它是世界的政治中心城市，虽然柏林墙倒塌已经三十年，但以前东德时期所保留下来的各种建构物和一部分柏林墙遗址也被用博物馆的方式保存了下来，以前东德时期的公路明显的要宽很多，集体主义式的房屋建筑随处可见，两种不同的社会结构空间痕迹，同处在德国这个民主自由国度里，这种景观的确很吸引人，也令人思考。

　　这次展览的装置作品的第一个方案，是考虑使用粗的缆绳和雨伞这两种材料进行构成关系作为表达，这里面有多层思考，绳子的材料属性和雨伞的属性是对抗的，所带来的解读指向性很明显，但这种方案有很大的局限性，一是限制了观众的思考，二是失去了作品的张力，审讯中心的恐怖情绪被削减悼了，所以最终选择了用斧头替换雨伞。因为艺术不是口号，对于装置作品，必须对材料构成上视觉效果关系的有效把控，决定了表达程度。作品现场的真实的铁斧头和绳子绞织在一起，给观众带来的紧张不安全危险，绳子随时碎断后可能对人的伤害，让人感觉到恐惧，这和现场以前的作为东德秘密警察审讯中心的当时残酷的情况很相应。

　　Ai Zhongliang: This time I stayed in the art district of a former East German prison, and the studio was on the second floor of the former East German Secret Police Interrogation Center, which I did not expect. Before I came to Berlin, I had contemplated about the direction to make it related to the current event in Hong Kong. But it was only a general direction without a specific plan.

　　Now this prison has become a place for free visit, attracting a large number of students almost every day, which is a surprising fact to me. It reminds me of my visit to Chongqing's Zhazidong (Slag Cave) and Baigongguan (Bai Mansion) organized by the school when I was a young student, on November 27 every year.

　　The historical stand of the city of Berlin determines that it is the political center of the world. Although the Berlin Wall has collapsed for 30 years, the various structures preserved in East Germany and part of the Berlin Wall site are used as museums. The streets in East Germany were obviously much wider, and the collectivist houses were everywhere. The co-existence of two different social spaces in the democratic and free country of Germany is indeed very attractive and thought-provoking.

　　The first plan of the installation work is to use thick ropes and umbrellas as the expression of the relationship between the two materials. There are multiple layers of expressions, the nature of rope as a material and the nature of the umbrella are confrontational, which brings an apparent interpretation. However this plan has many limitations, first, it prevents audiences from deeper thinking; second, we might lose the tension of the work by mitigating the horror of the trial center. Finally I chose to replace the umbrellas with axes. As art is not a slogan, especially for an installation work, it is necessary to effectively control the visual relationship in the material composition, which determines the intensity of expression. In the final art work, real iron axes and ropes are woven together, which generated a sense of tension and insecurity to the audiences. People have fears that the rope may break apart and hurt them at any point. As a former secret police trial center of East Germany, this exhibition vividly brings you back to the cruel scenes at that time.

前东德秘密警察审讯中心

Former East German secret police interrogation center

　　马永峰：你所感受到的国内的政治环境和柏林的政治环境有什么差异？有哪些激发你进行创作的部分，有哪些你认为值得批评的部分？

　　Ma Yongfeng: What is the difference between the political environment you feel in China and the political environment in Berlin? What are the parts that are inspirational for your work, and what are the parts that you think deserve criticism?

柏林市中心的各种游行

Parades in central Berlin

柏林市中心的各种游行

Parades in central Berlin

　　艾忠亮：中国和德国是不同制度的国家，柏林的政治环境相对来说是非常宽松的，经常都有不同的人群在街上进行各种利益述求的游行，我们还一起去参加过，什么声音都可以发出来，甚至可以在柏林市区里选择乌托帮无政府的生活状态，这里真的很自由！在这里想做作品创作完全不用考虑被审查，但是别人是不是认可你的声音又是另一回事。

　　在国内做作品时，人们已经习惯了要自我先审查一下，因为涉及到敏感问题的作品会被查封，不让展览，你做的事都会白做了！可能这也是我这次柏林项目在选择方向上的潜在意识引导吧。

　　Ai Zhongliang: The systems are different in China and Germany. The political environment in Berlin is relatively easy. There are often different groups of people marching on the streets to discuss various interests. We have also participated to speak up as much as we wanted, some people can even choose to live in a state of anarchy in Berlin. Here it is really free! I don't have to worry about being inspected, but it is another thing if others can recognize your voice.

　　When creating works in China, people are used to conducting self-inspection, because the works involving sensitive issues will be blocked, the exhibition will be canceled and all the effort will be in vain. Perhaps this is the reason why I try to give subconscious guidance in the direction of my Berlin project.

柏林市区内的无政府营地

An anarchic camp in downtown Berlin

　　马永峰：《反射》这件作品实施过程最大的难点是什么？是如何处理材料与材料、材料与空间之间的关系的？

　　Ma Yongfeng: What has been the biggest difficulty on the exection side of "Reflection"? How is the relationship between materials and materials, materials and space handled?

　　艾忠亮：《反射》这次展览应该是三件作品，一个装置和两个影像作品组成，由于空间的限制，主要是以装置为主，这个空间小就充分利用小的特点，把它当作一个优势来发挥。

　　冰冷的铁斧头和绳子的一部分布置得很低，一小部分甚至直接到地板，人可以零距离接触，危险就在身旁，当时你还提醒我安全第一，以防不测准备几个黄色的安全帽让观众戴上呢！

　　我个人认为在柏林做事也有不如国内的方面，这里做什么事都很慢，听德国人说我这样的布展请当地人，需要一周至十天的时间，但我请了李志来帮忙，我们两天就完成了，还包括中途进行调整重新买材料的时间。

　　Ai Zhongliang: "Reflection" should contain three pieces of works, one installation and two videos. Due to the size of the space, the installation work is the focus, that's how we take advantage of a small space.

　　The ice cold iron axe and part of the ropes are placed very low, with a small part even touching the floor, where people can make direct interaction. The danger is right beside you. At that time you even gave me a safety reminder that we should prepare a few safety helmets for audiences in case something goes wrong.

　　I personally think, that there are certain aspects in Berlin that are not as good as in China. For example, it is very slow to do things here. I heard from Germans that to complete the exhibition set-up with local forces, it would take 7-10 days. I asked Li Zhi for help and it was done only in two days, including the time for adjustment and re-purchase of materials.

《反射》展览现场

"Reflection" exhibition site

　　马永峰：其中的影像部分是如何实施的？采访主要涉及哪些内容？影像和装置之间的内在对话是如何建立的？

　　Ma Yongfeng: How was the video part executed? What is the main content of the interview? How is the internal dialogue between the videos and installation established?

　　艾忠亮：两个影像，一个是我在柏林做涂鸦的行动记录片，当时叫了张弱和我一起完成的这个作品，在柏林墙公园里涂鸦高3米长20米的“HongKong2019”图案，这是柏林项目直接介入社会的一部分。

　　另一个影像是采访记录片，对香港们学生、台湾的学生、和欧洲英国的艺术家的釆访，我们自己长期生活在中囯大陆，形成了我们的习惯性思维，关于香港的***运动，他们作为当事人和相关地区人，展示他们的观点看法及他们的述求，这会形成《反射》的脉络关系。

　　Ai Zhongliang: There are two videos, one is the action documentary of me creating graffiti work in Berlin. At that time, I called Zhang Ruo to join me. At East Side Gallery, I created a graffiti work of "Hong Kong 2019" that is 3 meters high and 20 meters long. In this part, the Berlin project made its direct involvement in the social issues.

　　Another video is an interview documentary with a Hong Kong student, a Taiwanese student, and a British artist. Most of the time we live in mainland China and have formed our habitual perspectives on Hong Kong's anti-extradition campaign. As the first party and relevant residents, they share their views and interests, which ultimately forms the contextual structure for "Reflection".

柏林墙公园涂鸦行为记录影像截图

A screenshot of a video recording of graffiti in a Berlin wall park

采访香港学生Alice yu影像截图

Screenshot of interview with Alice yu, a student from Hong Kong

采访台湾学生Elica影像截图

Screenshot of interview with Elica, a student from Taiwan

采访英国艺术家Jonathan Davis影像截图

Interview with British artist Jonathan Davis

　　马永峰：你的作品更多的是开放性的面向社会和政治环境的，如何进一步结合国际主义的创作经验在国内的作品中进一步深化你的创作内核？

　　Ma Yongfeng: Your work is mostly about being open to the social and political environments. How will you further deepen the conceptual core in your domestic works by combining the creative experience of internationalism?

　　艾忠亮：在中囯做社会题材尤其涉及政治的作品，其空间很小，体制内的艺术家绝对不可能触碰。其实艺术就是艺术，它可以涉及社会政治，但它也绝不等同于政治，艺术家也不是革命者。涉及政治，有观点有问题意识有表达，这些都不是艺术的目的，艺术有艺术本生自己所追求的超越这一切的东西。

　　《反射》只是这次柏林项目的一次成果展示，我计划在美术馆重做一次这个作品。

　　Ai Zhongliang: In China, there is very little space for works involving social, especially political issues, which the artists who live in the system are absolutely disallowed to have their fingers on. In fact, art is art itself, it can involve social politics, but it is by no means equivalent to politics, and artists are not revolutionaries. It's not the purpose of the art to have opinions, questions, consciousness and expressions, because art has its own pursues beyond all of these.

　　"Reflection" is just a demonstration of the Berlin project, and I plan to redo this work in the gallery.

柏林墙公园涂鸦行为记录影像截图

A screenshot of a video recording of graffiti in a Berlin wall park

展览现场酒会

Exhibition reception

　　特别感谢马永峰、张弱、李志给予我柏林项目的友情支持！感谢机构Berlin Co Gallery 及负责人Robin的大力支持！

2019年10月31日

　　Here I would like to express my gratitude to Ma Yongfeng, Zhang Wei, and Li Zhi, including Berlin-based coGalleries and the CEO Robin for their generous support for my Berlin project! 

October 31, 2019