Hsieh Su Chen: Many of the previous interviews have referred that you are well gifted in drawing since childhood; moreover, you put in great effort in improving your skills. What do you think of the relationship between talent and effort?

　　Zhao Dalu: Well, what a kid likes to do might be shown in the very early period of its life. These interests are just like a seed, if you cultivate or provide it with certain conditions or environments, it could grow and succeed in the end. Combining with efforts, the inherent talent would help a lot. Most of the time, diligence is not coercible. As for me, when I was learning to draw, 24 hours a day was not enough. I stayed up late till mid night, and got up very early in the morning to continue drawing. I was like this since little, always wanting to draw. It is the interest that leads me and guides me through.

　　No one is born a master without efforts.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: You had worked as a professor for a long time in China; does this experience affect your drawing?

　　Zhao Dalu: Of course, and that is why I quit the job in school. When you are teaching, you would switch your focus on to the most technical side of drawing, and to strive for perfection. Both the principle and the students want you to be skillful, you could achieve great satisfaction from your own skills, because if you teach well, your skills are well, you draw well, and you have nothing more to desire. However, if you want to draw and create as an artist, the environment in the school is not suitable. It makes you impetuous. That situation is even worse than that of the poor artists, because their hard life keep them away from interference, they only focus on creating and drawing, and expressing themselves.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: There are a number of contemporary artists I have spoken to in the past, who would not part from their teaching careers and would attain motivations as of the interactions with students. Have you ever had this feeling in your past teaching career?

　　Zhao Dalu: I had. But what they said is not true. Most professors were afraid of leaving their positions. The reason being that, if you hold such positions, art magazines, publishers and media would come to you, moreover; you could have priorities for your exhibitions, you would feel inflated because of the favors you enjoyed. Thus, I don’t think they have spoken their mind. What they have said is doubtful and the whole system itself is doubtful.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: In the early stage, the biggest influence on your work was the art of the Soviet Realistic School, which of your works greatly expresses that?

　　Zhao Dalu: It exists more or less in all my previous works, because it is a method of creation. The main stream of Soviet art does not aim to pursue multielement in the artistic language. It is simple, and moreover, a kind of skill and method. There was an artistic creation course in the former Art Academy, during which the professor examined the students’ works in great details, from composition to conception step by step, elaborating different characters, both main and secondary, just like drawing the Bible paintings. And then some specific rendering procedures were taught, such as how to do it with turpentine as well as other techniques – if the painting adopts a warm tone, the brown color is used, if a cool tone is intended, then ultramarine should be applied. It is called an artistic creation course even though it is in fact a stylized method. That was a course everyone had to follow and it served as a precondition for any one to become a leading artist. According to many people, the reason they dare not produce any creative works is that they have never gone through such ”training". Why did people feel incapable of doing the creative painting that even a child has the ability to produce? At that time in China, the fact was that few had the courage to try creative works.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: So the previous conception of creation is different from now.

　　Zhao Dalu: Absolutely. Though I am more or less influenced by the Soviet elements, and admire those brilliant classic and epic works, the main weakness of the Soviet socialist or realist art is that the man-made dramatic plots which exist in most of the works are too simple.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Balthus, the French artist, created a theatrical effect in his pictures. Even though his formation did not follow the classic method, he adopted the so-called epic or theatrical style from the Soviet art, and what do you think about this?

　　Zhao Dalu: He was trying to be ironic. He used the awkward elegance to mimic the theatrical style.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: No matter how ironic the Soviet realism or expression is, it requires being praise and eulogizing eventually, and it led to a turning point in the Soviet art history. Do you have similar experience?

　　Zhao Dalu: There is no such a clear turning point in my experience. The period I learned drawing was the period of economic reform and society opening up. It pushed me into a rebellious mood soon, although I did not really know what to rebel. Maybe, I felt I was no match for them, hence I chose to develop in a new area to avoided competing with them. Even I keep the Soviet realism as a basis in mind, it does not affect me that deep.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Did you express the epic or theatrical style in your portrait Collection of The Army Farm?

　　Zhao Dalu: There are one, but in a different form. Mine does not have those theatrical conflicts. I try to diminish them, though I keep the imposing manner in my works. Just like the Wheat Harvest, it needs something vigorous or vibrant, but not completely identical with the theatrical idea.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: I found in many of your previous artworks the theme of nude females, maybe it’s because those themes such as nudes and portraits are classic and traditional. However, your present expressions are different from the previous ones, why? What has caused the change in style?

　　Zhao Daul: In 1979, when a freshman at collage, I took part in the “Stars Art Exhibition” which was curate by Huang Rui. At that time, the curators aspired for artworks with the theme of nudes to break the restrictions and go against the authorities, rather than showing the skills and methods of drawing nudes.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Is it the rebellion from depression?

　　Zhao Dalu: Yes, It is our own way to declare war on traditions and conservatism.

　　My nude painting “Fish Banshee” was publicly displayed after the Cultural Revolution. That was the second year after the university entrance examination reintroduced, and many university students came to see the exhibition. People of that generation cared a lot about their country’s future, and many of them were excited to see the hope of reformation and liberalization though this “Stars Art Exhibition”. In fact, the artistic level was not that high, but it was famous because of its different significance. It was a challenge presented by a group of young people toward the tradition and orthodoxy!

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Why are you still drawing nudes after this authority had gone?

　　Zhao Dalu: At that time, the break through was not really on art. After the “89 New Trend”, a liberated thinking occurred, and then was the Central Art Academy’s Nude Painting Exhibition. A year or two before the exhibition I had done more than twenty nude paintings, and during the exhibition, the Culture & Art Publisher published one of my nude paintings’ collection, which was sold all over the street, even the stalls were selling them covered by plastic sheets. When the nude painting exhibition was on, people lined up from the Art Gallery to Kuanjie to buy tickets for it.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: So the nude painting is a kind of memory for you?

　　Zhao Dalu: I am pushed to the point by opportunities, and after that, all the others may think of you when they want to collect or exhibit nude paintings. The reason why many painters do not draw nudes is that they cannot draw them well. It may be because of their bad basic training or uncontrollable of the traditional skills. However, when you are good at nude paintings, you will automatically to show off your brilliant classic and realistic skills.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Whether it is forced or led to the point, from the modern art’s perspective, nude paintings are of very traditional ideas. If the primary factors encouraged you to draw nudes, why you keep drawing them till now? Many famous artists repeat similar themes again and again, it will be cliché to audience, and invaluable for academic differentiation. You don't have values and prices to trouble you, why are you still drawing the nudes?

　　Zhao Dalu: I actually kept on drawing them till I left China in 2001. After that I drew a lot less because I was tired of it.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Your nude paintings that created in Australia are different, from The Balcony Collection on, from the previous ones. The style is not elegant and classic, but of realism even though not completes realism. Why you started this topic again after giving it up for so long, and with totally different skills?

　　Zhao Dalu: It is because the depth of understanding painting has changed, or the things I’m trying to express are different. All the depressed, conservative and elegant things are intertwined together because of my earlier classicist training. Unnatural and exaggerated elegancy still exist in Chinese art circle nowadays, the wide spread problem had caused me to lose interest in nude paintings for nearly ten years. The nude paintings’ collection “Balcony” was created in 2007 when I lived in Melbourne. It showed the changes of my style. I reflected myself when I was aboard on what I was doing in the past. Actually I was out of art, like standing outside and looking at it. For example, when the audience says this is nice, and ask me draw it down, I will draw it down and gain their praises. However, now I am into it, and I show the audience what I want them to see. In that collection, the use of moody colors, free creational state of mind, and relaxed mode of expression, have made people feel differently of my works. And on another hand, my impulse of creativity is greatly released.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Pleas talk about decorative elements that involve Chinese features. Certainly, we can see this element in many of the Chinese realism, especially realism paintings, and they are strongly artistic and decorative. Your old collections also involve this part of Chinese decorative element, why?

　　Zhao Dalu: I think simply and automatically infuse the elements in one’s painting is wrong for me. It is rather a test or a process of trying, because at that time all the people were finding new ways to express themselves, For example, oil painters thought the western elements were too outmoded, and they wondered whether they should add to it some Chinese symbols. Especially when living aboard, the collision between cultures is very strong inside my heart; therefore I came up with Chinese elements, and viewed them as a shortcut to present different cultures. This causes many problems because, as I said just now, you are standing out of the art and trying to design it, you do not aim to show yourself, or to show something that could excite you, whether you know the point clearly is not the point, the point is whether it could excite you and make you crazy. I think this kind of “decorative element” in paintings is begging for favors, I mean, it is intended more to please and appeal the audience.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: However, Chinese photography from the foreigners’ perspectives should always involve the Oriental elements, even the parts of devices. The Oriental elements to them are a kind of exotic.

　　Zhao Dalu: Yes, the Oriental elements are things that are of novelty to them. However, the direct using of novelty symbols in paintings actually are some kinds of plagiarizing. If you forget yourself in it, you may get farther away from yourself, and your own requirements of art. Hence I stay away from this “decorative element”.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: After leaving China for Europe, and then Australia, is there any senses of self-exiled? Both of your leaving and Chinese literati’s self-exiled are method to decompress when one’s emotion can not be expressed, do you have such feelings at that time?

　　Zhao Dalu: Not really, more of the reason is self-punishment. I was not depressed, or cannot express, I felt good and pretty successful at that time. However, many people came to me for similar paintings, such as nudes, and rural girls’ paintings. If I had not left, I would have walked along the old and same road, though my paintings sold well in 1992, in Hong Kong’s Christie.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Are the moods of leaving and exiled affect your creation?

　　Zhao Dalu: Certainly. I think it is a complete change which made me overturn and rediscover myself, just like formatting the old things and upgrading them. However, the process was a suffering and difficult one. When I got to Sydney, I did not know what to do in the first two years.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Giving up the Chinese decorative style, your reputations and market, and migrated to Rome or Australia, how the two countries’ cultures affect you respectively?

　　Zhao Dalu: Actually it was a chaos when I was in Rome; I aspired to master the classic realism painting skills completely, because at that time Chinese art circle needed them, too. The reform just started, and those steady realistic techniques were required especially.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: China needed to build a big power’s imposing manner.

　　Zhao Dalu: Yes, a lot of people are need to establish such a manner. Hence, when I was firstly in Rome and saw so many classic paintings, I even forgot the times; masterpieces from hundred years ago are always overwhelming! How can such ancient countries, like China, did not have those? Therefore I had to learn and mater the skills first. I visited museums every day, imitated, and lost myself in the paintings. My exhibition there was pretty successful, and most of the paintings were sold; this gave me a blind feeling of optimization, and thought my skills were acceptable.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Mostly, when artists get to a foreign country, the new environment could bring them new positions and stimulations, and they may prefer those things. However, you chose to leave again. Why?

　　Zhao Dalu: When I went to Italy for the first time, I stayed there for half a year. I could stay on at that time because my exhibition was successful and paintings sold well, and I did not have the chance to make myself a street artist, or even lower. However, at that time I felt like, I must bring what I had learnt back to China; these skills were gap-filling in China, but were second-hand there, and you were also a foreigner. Of course there were many other reasons, too.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: There are no learnable and overwhelming things in Australia, but why you chose to go there?

　　Zhao Dalu: I thought I could even stop painting there because I aimed to live a secluded way.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Has living in Australia influenced you on your creation of new paintings?

　　Zhao Dalu: It influenced me a lot actually; mainly it is the change in ideas. Australia is a young country, and it easily accepts new things, including technologies, cultures, and art. People love art, important art exhibitions are even concerned by people living in small town, and artists are always respected. I did not aim to learn old things, but hope to understand and accept modern art. Fortuitously, Xiao Xi was learning modern art there, we always talked about the topic. We did hesitate about Eastern and Western elements in my paintings for only a short period of time.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Most of the artist will choose to settle in London or New York over Australia.

　　Zhao Dalu: Yes, I prefer to live a normal life, or a life without interference, because this could show me the real meanings of living in this world. If you are young and learning art, you may want to go to London or New York, but living in Australia could provide one more time to review the classics, and read the present.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Actually, when I mentioned New York and London, I aimed to stimulate you. In fact, no one has concerned about this question seriously. New York and London are for young people because they are there to re-obtain stimulation. However you do not aim to obtain stimulation, you need to return to self, and then come back. Hence you need a tranquil environment, even a pure environment with some artistic flavor.

　　Zhao Dalu: Yes, you are right. Even if I stop painting, I could live a steady life, to encounter and to comprehend.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Do you have any reaction about the cultural differences between the east and west?

　　Zhao Dalu: This topic is so much for now. Simply, Chinese art concerns more on subjective consciousness because Chinese people should have the nature of sensitiveness, and tremendous momentum. However, the tradition of western people is real. They need to feel like reality. For example, in the theater, the western people could hold horses to the stage, but Chinese people only need a horsewhip to represent thousands of horses. Of course what I was talking is about classical and traditional art. All in all, eastern people are euphemistical and hegemonism; western people are direct, and respect equality. Though there are also bad things in the west, they are open and free. Modern artists there could develop earlier because of the policies and economic system. Those artists could naturally get into an authentic being from the beginning, and all of their ways of presenting are allowed because your own ideas are the most valuable things. These move me a lot. Although Chinese modern art also develops fast, the industrious production of art seems more notable than presenting own ideas.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: The western paintings are composed by size, materials, and pigments; but in Chinese paintings, only paper and ink could present all the things. When the West was at the Dark Age, Artists represented by Dong Qichang had reached a high level. Though your genre is oil painting, dose Chinese art affect you?

　　Zhao Dalu: The main influence might be the spirits in Chinese art. The heaven, earth, objects and subjects unite together to represent a whole. I should show my feelings of an object to the audience, rather than specific part or details. For example, Chinese painting leaves a lot of blank, and the blank will be the space for imagination because no one could certainly say whether the paintings are not finished, or the artists leave it for imagination. However, in western classical painting, if you leave blank, your paintings are not finished; you can fill it with sky, mountain, or what ever, you have to fill it with something. Chinese painting is not similar at all, so it provides you more self-consciousness, which involves multi vanishing point. Although the peak, the water or everything look flat, without a sense of perspective or scenography, they stand there of themselves and are thought-provoking.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Modern art which involves Van Gogh and Gauguin is influenced by Ukiyoe. Though Ukiyoe is without scenography, it brings up a revolution to the western painting history.

　　Zhao Dalu: There are many brilliant things in China. Ancients were free because they did not draw the scenography specifically, and there is no need. If you draw everywhere accurately except one point, that point will ruin the whole picture. However, if all the points are inaccurate, people would not blame on you about your paintings.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: You are skillful but let go, and you are not skillful are two different things. It is a process from realism, abstract to freehand works. Then, let’s talk about some other elements. Who is your favorite movie director? How do you define movie? I think western paintings cannot be simple because unlike Chinese paintings, it cannot enter into another realm. Most of the modern artists are knowledgeable in many fields, and as a graduate student from Film Institution, how and what films influenced you?

　　Zhao Dalu: I did not watch that much in the resent years, but I have watched a lot when I was in the Film Institution, thus I preferred classic American and Russian movies. At that time, watching films was a process of accumulation. Before college, I had not watched any movies, so when I got into college, I could not stop watching. I watched hundreds of movies, and even had no time to consider whether I like which one or not. Generally, I prefer movies that express inner feelings, or movies with large scenes and historical themes but aim to express human natures. Old movies such as Wild Strawberries by Ingmar Bergman are great because of its warm emotions. And French “New Wave” movies in the 60s such as Truffaut’s Shoot the Piano Player, though the plot is strange, it makes me think a lot. The protagonist is in agony, but cannot display, and the expression of this feeling is really attractive. I like Francis Ford Coppola’s Apocalypse Now very much; it is a story about friendship between several Vietnam veterans, and the insight of humanity is thorough and moving. I also like the Russian film The Lake, though it is around 3 hours and with a few characters, the heavy mood reminds me of the Great Northern Wilderness, forests and silent lakes. The change and influence to me are unobtrusively and imperceptibly.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: How about literature?

　　Zhao Dalu: I have been reading literatures all the time, such as Chinese literatures, poetries, and paleography. Now I also spend most of my free time on reading, but randomly, most of the reading is for rest because there is less literary in works now. Before reading, I would go through the comments on the internet, find out which novels are interesting and then read. Reading has enlarged my space of imagination, so I prefer reading to watching films. The book that left a deep impression on me was Romain Rolland’s John Christopher, when I came back from the army farm; I read this for the first time. I was reading it over and over again in my spare time. I read argumentative works systematically, for example, Xiao Xi and I would read two or three pages of Susan Sontag’s Against Interpretation and On Photography everyday and talk about the opinions in the books.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: How about music?

　　Zhao Dalu: Pop music is just for entertainment. However, Beethoven’s symphony is what really moves me; people have to stand up while they are listening to Beethoven’s symphony. I also like Tchaikovsky’s The First Symphony and Beethoven’s Pastorals. Australia is a good place to listen Pastorals because landscape will appear in my mind. I find out that although music is the art of time, it is also stereoscopic and could create space. You can feel the breeze, and the wave of field coming to you, it is so great! Your heart has to be peaceful or you cannot feel it.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Who is your most favorite artist?

　　Zhao Dalu: I have no most favorite one. I used to like Repin and Surikov, but now I don’t want to see their works any more. I would rather read Repin’s Memoir, which is interesting, but I no longer want to see his works. Actually I prefer Gauguin more because his legendary experience attracts me. However, some of their works are commercialized, and it is not good to see too much.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Let’s talk about your exhibition. This exhibition is divided into 2 parts: one is of large realistic portraits, and the other is of the old photos of the army farm. Why putting these two different parts together?

　　Zhao Dalu: Back to the main point, my creation is from deep of my heart now. That means I want to find out things that settle down from my life, things I’m interested in, or things my heart can communicate with, rather than things that I am unfamiliar with. My life on the army farm is unforgettable, so I am eager to express my memories in this way. I paint those portraits not because they are famous people, but because they influenced me to certain extent.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: How do you view portraits? Your portraits are famous, so how do you view portraits on this exhibition? Portraits are both traditional and realistic, nowadays, in the period when ideology was emphasesed; it is hard to create new styles. The technology of photography also influences portrait paintings, but most of the audience could accept them easily. Even rich and powerful people think portraits represent more meanings. The western painting skills are losing gradually; therefore skills become one of Chinese paintings’ features. What do you think about portrait painting?

　　Zhao Dalu: In my opinion, portrait painting is an eternal theme. Artists must put their own perspectives of the model into the paintings, and know the models’ spirits and temperament. On the other hand, skills are important in portrait painting. I am good at molding but it is not to show off my skills, and I use “big touches”, coupled with expression of my emotion to satisfy myself, such as making the model’s hair float. I aim to present models’ thoughts, and present myself through the models. This makes me happy and satisfied.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Portrait paintings are powerful, simple and vigorous.

　　Zhao Dalu: It is more direct on presenting consciousness.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Your characters are introverted and gentle, but you present powerful, vigorous and exciting shocks while you were painting those large portraits, is that what you want to present primarily? The portrait of Xiao Xi in 2006 is very impressive.

　　Zhao Dalu: I don’t mean to do so, but when I feel depressed, painting is the way to release. When I was painting Xiao Xi, I had no pressure because she is a part of my family, and she would not blame on me even if I did not draw well. However, if I draw for trustors, I have to follow the rules and satisfy them. Hence I am always pressed while I’m painting. Though some of the pressure comes from trustors, more of it comes from myself, or the environment.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: I think portrait painting is the hardest, so I asked you how you think about it. I would like you to say more about portrait painting because I think it is so great. For example, you look gentle but actually are depressed and free to express. People are diverse, and their characters can be found through portrait paintings.

　　Zhao Dalu: This is very complicated. Sometimes, your pressure will be released through different ways. Now I could release through portrait painting because I have to observe and discover the models. Sometimes I feel dissatisfied about some of my works because I cannot reach a higher level.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: It is difficult, but interesting because the problem has not solved in Chinese art circle. The relationship between feelings and vision is unsolved. Things that portrait has expressed are very interesting. For example, in your painting of The Army Farm, we talked about some characters’ faces, which include a female educated youth, or a young soldier. Their faces are a part of the portrait, so what do you think about their emotions? Why you choose the theme of The Army Farm?

　　Zhao Dalu: It might be a complex. I got prepared in 2007 to paint that experience which has the greatest impact on my life. Actually the primary audience is me.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: However, why their faces are blurring? Why there are life-size paintings as the comparison?

　　Zhao Dalu: The blurring faces represent my internal feelings because I cannot remember my life on the army farm clearly and specifically. However, it did happen, like a gigantic stone is pressing down.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Do you mean chaos?

　　Zhao Dalu: Sure, I mean the feelings of unclear. Many of the companions on the army farm are living around me, I can see them clearly, but what did they look like when we were on the army farm? You may think they do not change, but they used to be very young. Hence I am eager to present this feeling by my painting, maybe this way is not the best, but it gives me the closest feeling of my youth memories. It helps the audience read my memories through my paintings, and read the spirit of that period of time.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Beside the army farmers, there is a life-size painting of a shovel, or a piece of wheat, a sickle, or a hat. Why?

　　Zhao Dalu: Maybe is to present an emotion because those things could reminds people of their old life and sympathetic responses. I have to draw them intently, or the paintings are not completed, and I want to find out the feeling of memories, the contracts between memories and reality.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Do you mean the blurring memories? Actually the shovel has not changed, the hat has not changed, and all of them still exist nowadays, but the meaning which is given by age changes. Those objects are full of symbols of the age. For example, shovels are now used for building, it is normal, but they are evidences of the age in your perspective.

　　Zhao Dalu: Yes, those are features and symbols of the age. Shovels and hats are real, and they would move our generation and bring old memories back to them.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: You are excited and have true sentiment when I mentioned the life on the army farm, but it is difficult to understand for people who do not have the similar experience, especially young audience. Your exhibition does not aim to show visual pleasure, but focus on solving your own problems and cherish the past. Have you ever considered about the young audience? How could they understand what you want to express?

　　Zhao Dalu: This is a problem. I don’t think audience would mind because art actually is a participation that involves only a small group of people. If you tell a story from Qing Dynasty, some of the people will be interested, and some of them will not. Actually, the point is whether your ways of telling stories could interest others. I think people over 45 years old may have sympathetic responses, but I don’t want to consider those problems, this exhibition aims to release myself, and the audience could imagine by themselves.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: If paintings are reflections of the artists’ life or their reflections of old life, does your present life in Beijing encourage you to paint your memories from those old photos? For example, the Taiwan director Hou Xiaoxian made films to express, remember and cherish the old local culture. He is of my grandparents’ generation, but his movies lead all of us back to his age. Your present life in Beijing is also depressed for you, so you are eager to get back to the life on the army farm, the life that gives you a goal and a pure, graceful and even non-polluted environment. The non-polluted environment means non-polluted spirit, and materials. So you feel like taking refuge in the past and do not have to face your present life.

　　Zhao Dalu: Yes, sometimes I really don’t want to face it. Actually I have my own desire, and the gap between my desire and real life is gigantic. I am eager to find out or escape to a pure place, even it may affect other people’s life. Our generations are somewhat idealist, but people nowadays concentrate more on self-value. When we were young, we concerned about politics, countries, world, and everything.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Realist painting attracts the whole world’s attention, and art becomes the love-child of the age. In the 60s, people said painting has died, but it seems recovering, and rewriting the history of art. China does not follow the west and hit the brick wall, so Chinese art cannot connect with the modern society. How do comment on Chinese realist painting.

　　Zhao Dalu: There are no problems no matter how you draw, but there are problems on realist painting. Those things are from the west, people organized a school to fight against other things, but it is totally different in China. The history of Chinese oil painting is only several hundred years, and the way of developing is totally different, too. There was a “turn to the Soviet period”, and the development got faster after the reform. Realist paintings used to be the best evidence of a period, as China is developing; art becomes an investment, and commercialized. Then many schools of painting appear to capture the market. To be serious, Chinese schools of art do not have connections to art itself. Hence I think works are much more important rather than schools, and I care more about how artists express themselves by modern painting.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: If you ignore the schools or ism, you would not get popular, but most of those artists are away from reality.

　　Zhao Dalu: That is what I mean. No matter realists or abstractionists, your works’ quality depends on your attitude to life and art. How to express your feelings or how to move the audience depend on whether you have the moving feeling deep inside your heart. All the artists want to be successful and recognizable, and the best way to judge whether you are successful is the market. This becomes a mode of creation, and the commercializing of art is like a “revolution”. It leads the younger artists and collectors to a wrong way. I was in the “revolution” deviating from the true meaning of art for a not short period of time in the 90s, and this is one of the reasons of my leaving.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: We can talk about the definitions of real success and the success on market. Now the boundaries are blurring in Chinese art circle.

　　Zhao Dalu: It is very controversial. If we cannot get the answer, then we have to wait for a hundred years.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: All of those schools and ism could cause serious sequela.

　　Zhao Dalu: Therefore we have come to the issue concerning the artists’ sense of responsibility, and the social conscience. One is how to lead the younger generations and the other is the responsibility to the public.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: You are using traditional techniques in your The Army Farm or other portrait paintings, and those traditional techniques can also show your own thinking models. This is good quality work, and the market becomes less important.

　　Zhao Dalu: You are right, and I try to do so. The most terrible thing is that people’s aesthetic is led by the market, and think oil paintings can only be like this.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: This is misleading, and this misreading is wrong. But as a matter of fact, misreading can be a very nice state of mind. For instance, when some one sees that your interpretation of things is different from others, he might draw insight from you and waken his own imagination, knowing that there might be other explanations.

　　Dalu Dalu: Yes. However, some people always want to establish a model, and make all the others mimic the model which aims to capture the market.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Generally, where your knowledge and inspiration come from?

　　Zhao Dalu: My knowledge seems abundant because of my past experiences. Experiences are pre-arranged by fate, and then there come the steps of reading, analyzing, ways of doing things in daily life and involvement of art itself. Living in Australia had encouraged and provoked me to create out of ease, and never worried about “what to draw”. It’s all about the expression of emotion, thus is determined by the state of mind.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: We’ve came to sum up the art circle as an impetuous and utilitarian scene, you have been back in China for quite a while now, how would you look at it? Market turmoil are also spoken of, it is a factor that’s caused by this era we’re in. If we don’t compare the development of art history of China by judging it on a western scale, do you think such environment can possibly bring about something extraordinary?

　　Zhao Dalu: Sure, quite likely. In my opinion, if the environment got a little more vulgar, that something extraordinary would come out.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: There might be another possibility that if the whole world observes China, you can be easily discovered. I think under the pressure of impetuous and benefit, some good works might appear naturally.

　　Zhao Dalu: Against such background, the art of originality would be highlighted of their own right. Therefore if the environment would get anymore vulgar than it is now, a new group along with some decent works might appear.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Let’s talk about styles of art. Are you settling down to this style of yours for good?

　　Zhao Dalu: I do not purposely create my own style; I am the type of person who likes to innovate and try different things, therefore “settling” I can’t do. I try to adjust the mood often, and was never satisfied since when I was little. Actually, over the years I’ve studied a variety of art styles and could also mimic impressionism really well; in fact I could even imitate Wu Guanzhong’s China ink painting style and soviet’s plastic arts. Hence I really appreciate Lixite, he once said “I’ve been painting till I am 70 or 80, but I’m still such a fool because I maintain no particular style”. “I drew every painting in individual style and appearances”. I can totally understand his words… he is not self praising or mystifying. I have seen a lot of his paintings and believe that he has a special way of thinking, an artist willing to diverge from the current state of being. He trails closely to the art period he‘s in, that’s why he can be very influential. My instinct tells me not to stick to one particular style, avoid using the same notations repeatedly. Now I came to realize the period in which I use to paint the “rural girl” was indeed quite bland. Don’t fix yourself into one spot. Above all, maybe I don’t have the understanding of art style’s ideological context.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Have not you created your own style?

　　Zhao Dalu: No, I never did. I would accept what the history approves or the public accept of me. I don’t really have to purposely create my own style; also consider the diverse society we live in now and there are a lot of borrowings from one another.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: Does China’s fast development affect your creation in any ways?

　　Zhao Dalu: Yes, I feel nervous. The fast development brings up my introspections, I really want to sink into it and do things step by step. My elements of creation come from my real life and own experience. I cannot follow the main stream of the society because I would like to create works that are valuable to me, and bring warmth and peace to this complicated world.

　　Hsieh Su Chen: You have said that: I am from this age and can only represent this age. What do you want to show to the audience by your language?

　　Zhao Dalu: Art is a form of representation of the age it is in. As a contemporary artist, one of my responsibilities is to provide the society with great varieties of imaginations. As a result, I must apply the contemporary way of artistic expression. That is a must. As for the evaluation of the age we are in, I think that is the work of later generations. As for me, I think it is my duty to express what I have experienced with my heart and soul. That is what I have intended to achieve. Whether or not I have done so, that will be judged by others, since I have expressed myself whole-heartedly. The ever changing of my style may be the records of our age and the foot prints I have left.

　　Caochangdi Studio in Beijing, May 2011