Wangjing, Chaoyang district, Beijing

Wangbaojv(Wang for short): Last time you mentioned that you would like to conclude the previous artistic creation and begin　something new. So today’s interview would be a general summary of your past artistic career which is quite necessary and significant　and at the same time I’d like to make sure what you want to express most in art and why you chose this kind of expression up to now. I　know you are not an eloquent person that doesn’t matter as long as you can make yourself understood.　From your resume you came to Beijing in 1991, why did you come to Beijing from Shandong?

Pangyongjie (Pang for short):I had no other thought except for drawing. In fact at that time there was almost no modern art in　Shandong so I’d like to seek my path in The Central Institute of Fine Art. And I didn’t have a job after graduated from Shandong Normal　University so I came to Beijing to pursuit further study at The Central Institute of Fine Art.

Wang: Then you had already learned about modern art?

Pang: Yes, there’s a Shandong southwest school in “85 New Trend” and among them Dongchao was an influential one. He took part　in many important exhibitions and had close relationship with Dingfang and Gaominglu. I got along with some of his followers when I　was a teenager. So I knew a little of Modern art though in Shandong the art atomosphere was weaker compare to that of in Sichuan or　Dongbei.

Wang: As early as that, you came to Beijing after that?

Pang: yes.

ang: What was your state like when you were studying in The Central Institute of Fine Art? Was that the state you have been always　looking for?

Pang: I was quite na?ve at that time, I thought I would become a master once entering The Central Institute of Fine Art. But after about　half a year I found that to engage in art one has to depend on oneself. My true-life skills was good after studying there for half a year　but I was in a serious conflict as I didn’t like this style. However I hadn’t find a better one for myself at that time therefore I stayed at　Dongcun near Tuanjie lake. Then prof. Bao was making sculptures and needed some helpers. I could always learned some fresh theories　while I was following Prof.Bao making his sculptures which was a great inspiration for me. From that time I converted from realism to　expressionism and created some dark paintings. That was my early state.

Wang: Had you moved to Yuanmingyuan (the surrounding area near The Imperial Garden) at that time?

Pang: Yes, in fact I hoped to pursuit further education at The Central Institute of Fine Art before graduating from Shandong Normal　Univsity. So I came to Yuanmingyuan and stayed there for more than one month and moved several times after that. I used to live in the　residential area of the institute for training coalmine administrator where prof. Sui had a studio.

Wang: What institute?

Pang: The coal industry administrator institute near The Second　Foreign Language School where I lived by myself. I also hoped to learn contemporary art. So I got acquainted with some of those　13　people and had seen some of their works. Prof.sui was making big　sculptures at that time, including stone sculptures.

Wang: Enlace stones.

Pang: Later I met a friend, speaking of Yuanmingyuan there were　a lot of artists living there. I moved there in the year when my son　was born.

Wang: When was that?

Pang: In the spring of 1995,.

Wang: Didn’t that artists group dissolve?

Pang: Right, it dissolved after I had moved there for several　months.

Wang: What kind of artists did you met there?

Pang: Someone like Liouzhifeng.

Wang: How did that period of life influence you in art?

Pang: The batch of paintings with big heads was created at that　time in Yuanmingyuan. I was thinking to hold an exhibition at the　Chinese Art Gallery and made a reservation for the end of that　year. I drew a head of a newborn baby. A lot of artists living near　yuanmingyuan were dispelled. Sometime fly cops would come to　knock at the door and artists were taken away. My wife locked me　inside my room then I produced more than ten paintings. After　that we moved to Dongbahe alone with Liuzhifeng and a lot of　others. We all lived in the same area.

Pang: Yes, I was in that kind of state. That was exactly what I felt in life then.

Wang: In which year did you hold an art exhibition?

Pang: That was in Dec.1995 at the Chinese Art Gallery.

Wang: What were the feedbacks?　22Pang: It’s OK considering I was still very young with few acquaintances in this field. I just wanted to express my ideas.

Wang: But by the end of 1995 your original style was changed from dark and heavy one into lighter hue, and the composition of the　picture became easy and unbending. The plump women with blurry face were presented in your paintings. And that was the rudiment　of your later style. What caused you to make such changes?

Pang: Since 1996 I’ve paid more attention to the folk and oriental elements after holding my painting exhibition in the Cheese Art　Gallery. Before that I exposed myself more to western style. I became interested in all kinds of folk painting including that of Japan and　India.　In fact it was a slow process from 1995 to 2000 and that influence might not show itself fully in my painting at that time. But then, the “Big　head” image displayed at the Chinese Art Gallery was already relevant to my new style. From 1996 to 2000 a new image was gradually　formed. Just like a self-portrait, once established, then you could never get rid of it.

Wang: In fact that become a rudiment of your later works, is that due to the oriental influence of that period?

Pang: That’s right. I had been studying the oriental art for about four years.

Wang: Then that should be from 1997 to 2001, and I’ve noticed that you had no new work during that period of time. Like a pause?

Pang: I wouldn’t call it a pause because I moved to Tongzhou in 1997 to 1998 and was influence by the group of people in Binhe, surely　I would think of my future style after I had my rudimentary idea. During that time, I thought of a more realistic style but later I found　that there was a lot of people were doing the similar thing, so instantly I wanted to counter this trend as I do not want to follow the　trend. In fact, there was no one to study that stuff as I did at that time.

Wang: What on earth influenced you?

Pang: In fact it is a very natural and instinct feeling.

Wang: Is the essence in oriental philosophy?

Pang: There’s some stuff in philosophy that influenced me, but I reject those rationality or theory. I have many friends including some　masters. But I wanted to find my own way from my emotions or from folk art, in a word from something natural. I did learn some　theories, but I don’t like to be over rational.

Wang: So your feelings are mainly from visual effect including what you have motioned above such as the art of Japan and India.

Pang: Yes, I study mainly through looking at pictures, I also read theoretical essay but the institutive stuff influences me most.

Wang: There must be something in it that spiritually supports you.

Pang: Yes.

Wang: What’s that?

Pang: How should I put it? It’s a kind of oriental harmony that is easy to feel but hard to express in words .I feel that stuff is relevant to　my life.

Wang: So you applied it in your artwork?

Pang: Right. I thought the so-called contemporary avant-garde art did not exclude eastern art. How to define it depends on individual　perspective and understanding.

Wang: As early as 1996 the complete image of the woman with big hip and plump breast was formed in your works.

Pang: Yes, I had the ides since 1996, in 1998 the general shape was formed and basically till 2000 the style had been established.

Wang: Why did you chose such kind of woman image?

Pang: I consider it a self-portrait, more or less a kind of self-expression.

Wang: But you are a man.

Pang: Many people believe the image is a woman, however, that is not a woman but a neutral, a broader concept or only a self-portrait　that is something private.

Wang: Actually it represent a profound idea in your heart but incarnated in the image of a woman.

Pang: Exactly.　15

Wang: Then this woman image is turned into a beast in your　sculpture in 2001.

Wang: How should we understand that animal image?

Pang: In fact, animal is a broader concept in my mind. I’m an　open-minded and tolerate person. No matter what it is, an animal　or a man ,to me they are the same mysterious and obscure. At　first I didn’t try to capture the mysterious feeling with my brush　but to let it brainstorme in my mind until it sink into something　concrete. After two or three months I would think of it again to　see if my feeling for it is strong enough or the image is good　enough. If it is there, then I would put it on the paper.

Wang: Does the oriental enjoyable elements in your pictures such　as all your woman images with cherry-red lips and big breast　have anything to do with “sex”?

Pang: Yes, In fact my interpretation for “sex” is freedom, especially　for those gang-there-out people like me; we would pay more　attention to the dignity and freedom of an individual. And this is　a free approach.

Wang: Whether your sculpture is a woman or a man’s self-portrait,　it is not standing and it has only limbs, big breast and big hip. The　walking and working functions of feet and hands were concealed.　It is a kind of cultivation and it bears the weight of history, at the　same time it expresses the spiritual freedom and pleasure as well　as the richness and joy of our life. Is there a procreate worship　involved?

Pang: Actually there’s no procreate worship. My concept is to　express an idea, perhaps it contains more sentient elements　but not much primitive stuff. As many homosexuals collect my　paintings some people asked me whether I was a homosexual or　not. In fact this question is an irrelevant one. They like my painting　may result from the broad concept I advocate. As homosexuals, they are oppressed and discriminated in the society. Perhaps they find　no oppressive stuff in my painting but a united image contains all animals and human beings regardless of man or woman.

Wang: Therefore the so-called procreant worship or homosexual or sexual meaning are not your original intentions but derived　meanings.

Pang: That’s right. Someone may interprete them superficially, but what I want to express is a kind of freedom, a manner or a stream of　consciousness that is to walk in a “montage” way, in a dreamy feeling. It is not genitalia or a men, a woman. I have not put my emphasize　on this. And many people asked me whether I was greatly influenced by the artistic images of Tang Dynasty. I maybe influenced by　them to a certain degree, but generally speaking it is an integrated influence. As to obesity, I had the inclination of exaggerating in my　painting since I was young, and the sentient elements may be formed naturally from the picture itself.

Wang: Does your work have anything to do with the advocated concept of “great picture seems no form”in Chinese traditional　philosophy?

Pang: Perhaps. That was in accordance with my character. I’m a sentimental and versatile type. I would allow my consciousness to flow　freely instead of binding it on a point.

Wang: Including amorous art?

Pang: Yes.

Wang: Do you think there’s a relationship between your art and amorous art?

Pang: I don’t think there is much relationship except for their bolshy spirit. Superficially I am a mild person but in fact I always run to an　extreme. Such as in this contemporary art environment I adopt an oppositional way.

Wang: Oppose what?

Pang: Against all kinds of violence. I hope to explore a new way or to prove the value of aother forms of contemporary art.

Wang: You mean those over ideological, over symbolic or over allusive stuff.

Pang: That’s right, individuality should be advocated. More and more artists with unique style should be allowed to engage in their　pursuit despite of the trend.

Wang: In fact I think your work is related to amorous art.

Pang: Yes, indeed, but only a little.

Wang: Because on the surface, the sculpture is very bright and smooth, with an exaggerated shape.

Pang: Yes, there’s no authority in my mind and I think that the more amorous the more civilian. I am the product of our environment in　which my friends and I have stayed since the early 1990s.

Wang: What kind of style do you belong to?

Pang: I would rather be myself and go my own way.

Wang: When did you begin to apply the image from your pictures　to your sculptures?

Pang: In 2001, in fact the sculptures were not done until 2004.　Once the image was established I found it would be more　interesting and forceful to make it a sculpture. And I had this idea　for several years. At first I thought it over but considering at that　time I did not have a very strong feeling for it when I did I set　about doing it. The original image in my mind was not very clear:　it might be an animal or a man or something else. But when it　came out, it became an animal.　I tried to bake this kind of porcelain but was unable to achieve a　satisfactory effect. Later I used glass-steel and I made it. And now　the stainless steel brings better effect.

Wang: Last time I saw the photos and I like best. You placed　your sculptures in different surroundings—in the forest, by the　lake, in the field, at the waterfall, near to the power plant, next　to the railway with trains passing by at high speed, in clumps of　cauliflowers, even in the Chinese ancient garden. Here, you turned　your sculpture into spirit no matter it was alone or in-groups. It　even emerged as a ghost related itself with different surroundings　or became your doll to philosophically explore the problems in　every corner of the society. It is unique in its free, leisurely and　mysterious stance, which is quite different in our society.

Pang: Actually this sculpture is different not only because it　is mysterious, but also because it seems alive and relevant to　its environment. Not like previous sculptures that just stood　there, my sculpture would come out like a ghost, sometimes it　creeps out from the lake like a spirit from ancient time. Whether　occidental or oriental it is closely related to its environment and　culture.

Wang: Have you still put those sculptures there or you have taken　them back after taking those photos?

Pang: I took them back because I had many settings to shoot.　These Sculptures are pure stuff and purity is a path I choose to　take.

Wang: I’d like to ask this question again. Before 2002, your　paintings was more pure in color, after that you use red, pink and　green in your pictures and the woman images are presented ingroups.

Pang: You’re right. Till 2002 my paintings were generally dramatic　with strong sense of composition, but that was only a process that　lasted for about two years, and gradually turned into this group　images. It is to meet the call from my heart.

Wang: Now many artists live in Song Village, and you have stayed　there for a long time, how do you feel like living there?

Pang: I live there yet I feel less attached to it. I’m strongly against　the idea of confining oneself to any area. When I just moved there　I was quite uncomfortable with that concept as if Song village　belongs to somebody.

Wang: So you defy any form of definition.

Pang: Yes, at least one should not defined oneself by any place.　That was like occupying or ruling a place, or granted a united　personality for a group. However, I think artistic creation should　be an individual behavior, should be independent.

Wang: I have read your article on keeping distance from the avant　garde artists who seek to grasp the favorable position, keeping　distance from concept art that go further away from the artistic　instinct, keeping distance from the opportunists who copy the　established success, keeping distance from the art venders who　which my friends and I have stayed since the early 1990s.

Wang: What kind of style do you belong to?

Pang: I would rather be myself and go my own way.

Wang: When did you begin to apply the image from your pictures　to your sculptures?

Pang: In 2001, in fact the sculptures were not done until 2004.　Once the image was established I found it would be more　interesting and forceful to make it a sculpture. And I had this idea　for several years. At first I thought it over but considering at that　time I did not have a very strong feeling for it when I did I set　about doing it. The original image in my mind was not very clear:　it might be an animal or a man or something else. But when it　came out, it became an animal.　I tried to bake this kind of porcelain but was unable to achieve a　satisfactory effect. Later I used glass-steel and I made it. And now　the stainless steel brings better effect.

Wang: Last time I saw the photos and I like best. You placed　your sculptures in different surroundings—in the forest, by the　lake, in the field, at the waterfall, near to the power plant, next　to the railway with trains passing by at high speed, in clumps of　cauliflowers, even in the Chinese ancient garden. Here, you turned　your sculpture into spirit no matter it was alone or in-groups. It　even emerged as a ghost related itself with different surroundings　or became your doll to philosophically explore the problems in　every corner of the society. It is unique in its free, leisurely and　mysterious stance, which is quite different in our society.

Pang: Actually this sculpture is different not only because it　is mysterious, but also because it seems alive and relevant to　its environment. Not like previous sculptures that just stood　there, my sculpture would come out like a ghost, sometimes it　creeps out from the lake like a spirit from ancient time. Whether　occidental or oriental it is closely related to its environment and　culture.

Wang: Have you still put those sculptures there or you have taken　them back after taking those photos?

Pang: I took them back because I had many settings to shoot.　These Sculptures are pure stuff and purity is a path I choose to　take.

Wang: I’d like to ask this question again. Before 2002, your　paintings was more pure in color, after that you use red, pink and　green in your pictures and the woman images are presented ingroups.　Pang: You’re right. Till 2002 my paintings were generally dramatic　with strong sense of composition, but that was only a process that　lasted for about two years, and gradually turned into this group　images. It is to meet the call from my heart.　Wang: Now many artists live in Song Village, and you have stayed　there for a long time, how do you feel like living there?

Pang: I live there yet I feel less attached to it. I’m strongly against　the idea of confining oneself to any area. When I just moved there　I was quite uncomfortable with that concept as if Song village　belongs to somebody.

Wang: So you defy any form of definition.

Pang: Yes, at least one should not defined oneself by any place.　That was like occupying or ruling a place, or granted a united　personality for a group. However, I think artistic creation should　be an individual behavior, should be independent.

Wang: I have read your article on keeping distance from the avant　garde artists who seek to grasp the favorable position, keeping　distance from concept art that go further away from the artistic　instinct, keeping distance from the opportunists who copy the　established success, keeping distance from the art venders who

Wang: Then why didn’t you speak?

Pang: I was over-obstinate and would not speak when I was asked　to.

Wang: Then if you had something to say whom should you turn　to?

Pang: I had some close friends too. But if I was forced to do　anything, I would never obey.

Wang: I think your artwork is relevant to your growing　environment in Shandong.

Pang: Indeed, my character was formed there.

Wang: Is that a plain?

Pang: Yes, a plain.

Wang: A vast plain?

Pang: Yes.

Wang: Could we say that this growing environment decide your　character and your character decide your art?

Pang: Yes, I lived near the Yellow river at that time, I still remember　once I went to the wild to see wild flowers with a friend. I knew　nothing　about painting but I would sit there watching for half a day or　even for a whole day. That is me. My career and my state is closely　related to this character.

Wang: Your work is closely related to the earth and the life of your　hometown but not contemporary art. Your root is there, your　heart decide what you are doing now and you are not subjected　to any outside influences,

Pang: Right, my work is from my heart, from my feelings. And I’m　not a very conservative person.

Wang: May I ask the marketing circumstance of your works?

Pang: My works have been sold well since 1999.

Wang: Did that influence your creation? I mean after 1999.

Pang: No, I was alright. Even in 1996,1997 when a gallery　appreciated my painting but they asked to add a bird on it to　which I firmly rejected and ended my cooperation with them.　At that time, they paid me millions of RMB a year. Yet I am not a　docile person and will not subjected to any outside pressure.

Wang: You never.

Pang:: Right, to some degree. I do not like the feeling that　something was forced on me, and I’m very sensitive to that.

Wang: You are very rebellious.

Pang: Indeed my paintings are rebelious. I knew it would be　much easier if I follow other’s style, as my basic skills are good.　However I chose to go my own way, it will be a hard way but I’m　fully prepared..

作者：Wang,BaoJu