采访：黄专(批评家、策展人)

　　方式：书信采访/广州←→天津

　　时间：1995年6月

　　An Interview with Zhang Yu

　　Interviewer: Huang Zhuan (critic, curator)

　　Interview format: Written correspondence Guangzhou-Tianjin June 1995.

　　Translated by WenZai/AEMcKenzie December 2011

　　艺术家工作室报告

　　Artist studio report

　　黄专：从作品品质看，你属于内省性画家，你的作品有很强的暗喻性，具有将历史、文化描述和现实、心理描述相融合的倾向，你能谈谈你的水墨画实验经历的一些阶段和它们之间的逻辑联系吗?

　　Huang Zhuan: Judging by the character of your work, you are an introspective artist. Your works have a strongly metaphorical character, and display a tendency to combine history, cultural depiction and reality, and psychological depiction. Could you say something about some of the stages in the history of your ink-and-wash experimentation, and about the relationship between these stages?

　　张羽：70年代末、80年代初期因工作需要，我做了几年的传统绘画的研习工作，临摹了大量的水墨和工笔人物画、山水画、花鸟画。同时还创作了连环画、年画、工笔人物画等，对传统水墨画有我自己的理解和认识。客观的讲，我的水墨实验起源与80年代中期新潮美术对传统艺术模式的猛烈冲击这个大背景是分不开的。由于有对传统绘画的研摹阶段，1986年我首先开始创作现代水墨作品是《扇面系列》，其动机一方面是对自己少年时代的感受有着强烈的表达欲望。另一方面是对传统笔墨程式的梳理、也含有一定的清理性，以及对材料技法上的新尝试。主要策略是引入一些西方现代艺术对空间结构表现方法，但由于“扇面”这种传统形式本身就直接限制了实验的“现代感”的发挥。

　　Zhang Yu: For several years in the late 1970s and early 1980s, I for work purposes studied traditional ink-and-wash paintings and copied a large number of ink-and-wash and meticulous-style portraits, shanshui landscapes and flower-and-bird paintings. At the same time, I was creating my own comic serials, spring-festival paintings and meticulous-style portraits, and I had my own understanding and knowledge of traditional ink-and-wash painting. Objectively speaking, the beginnings of my ink-and-wash experimentation cannot be separated from the broad background of the violent impact of the art of the mid-1980s New Wave on traditional art models. Because of my period of studying and copying traditional painting, the modern ink-and-wash work that I began to create in 1986 was the Fan series. The motive for this was, first, that I had a strong desire to express the feelings of my young days. Second, it was an analysis of the traditional programs of brush-and-pen, and also contained a certain character of sorting things out, as well as of new experimentation in traditional materials and techniques. The main strategy was the introduction of some methods of western modernist art in dealing with the expression of spatial structure, but the traditional form of the fan itself directly limited the play of the modern feel of the experiments.

　　于是，在1989年开始的《肖像系列》中我开始放弃扇面形式，而改为以规整的对开方型实验，并通过加强墨与色之间在画面上的冲撞、渗化效果和引入抽象符号，尽可能的追求其形式张力和凝重，还有伤感的内省情绪，这一过程一直沿续到1992年底我从莫斯科回国以后。1993年我以《随想集》系列的表达方式，有意放大和抽离《肖像系列》中的符号元素，“蝌蚪”这个暗喻性符号就是在这一时期产生的，作品内涵也由倾诉个体经历的不幸拓展到更为开阔的文化和精神的层面，作品的表达强调超验性，“蝌蚪”符号不仅隐喻了生命的顽强，还描叙了自然与我们的精神与生理状态之间的天然联系。

　　Accordingly, in the Portrait series that I began in 1989, I abandoned the fan form, and changed to experimenting within a regular square format, as well as strengthening the clash between ink and colour on the surface, using seeping effects and introducing abstract symbols. I was pursuing the tension, depth and force of the form. There was also a sorrowful emotion of introspection. This process continued until late 1992, after I had returned from Moscow. In 1993, in the expressive format of my Capriccio series, I deliberately enlarged and detached the abstract symbolic element of my Portrait series. The metaphorical ‘tadpole’ sign was born in this period. The content of the works, by referring to the misfortune of individual experience, expanded it to a more open cultural and spiritual level. The expression in the works emphasized transcendence. The ‘tadpole’ sign not only suggested the indomitable tenacity of life, but also described the innate connections between spirituality and the physiological state in nature and in ourselves.

　　从语言上，这一符号对控制水墨的随机性，强调水墨的受控性和稳定性，以及用暗喻符号拓宽水墨性言说的维度也起到了较好的效果。但经过这段实验，我逐渐感到象征符号的暗喻形式，在释放水墨的当代文化容量上仍有局限，限制了水墨表现的某种原创状态和动力能量的自由，也使水墨实验有可能偏离本土性和纯粹性这个文化前提，这也是我放弃暗喻符号而开始进入抽象性水墨实验的原因。在《墨象笔记》中我开始重新强调水墨表现的自在状态，希望解决当代水墨性话语的国际化和本土化双向的推进。目前在做的《灵光》系列以更为单纯的“光”、“残圆”和墨块图式使这一逻辑方向更为直接、明确和具有文化和精神上的针对性。In terms of visual language, this sign emphasizes the controllable and stable nature of ink-and-wash in the face of controlling its randomness, and using metaphor and signs to broaden the dimensions of the ink-and-wash statement also produced a rather good effect. However, during this period of experimentation, I gradually came to feel that the metaphorical form of the symbolic sign was still limited in its contemporary cultural capacity to set ink-and-wash free. It was impeding the freedom of some original state and kinetic energy in ink-and-wash expression, and also resulted in the possibility of the ink-and-wash experiment deviating from the local character and purity of its cultural precondition. This was also the reason why I abandoned metaphorical signs and embarked on abstract ink-and-wash experiments. In Notes on Ink Images I began again to emphasize the free state of ink-and-wash expression, hoping to resolve the problem of promoting the two-way internationalization and localization of the contemporary ink-and-wash discourse. The Inspiration series which I am currently producing uses even simpler ‘light’ (光), ‘broken circles’ (残圆) and solid ink schemata (墨块图式) to make this logical direction even more direct, explicit and culturally and spiritually targeted.

　　黄专：能简单谈谈你的创造过程中的一些独特的工作方式吗?

　　Huang Zhuan: Can you discuss in simple terms some of the unique working formats of your creative process?

　　张羽：材料上我继续使用传统媒材，保持水墨的单纯性，只用宣纸和水墨，工具是毛笔和板刷，而在新技术上我使用了喷枪。某些极特殊情况下使用红色或金色丙烯，红色和金色色块的使用是为了与整体的墨色形成对抗、碰撞、张力，在对抗性因素中加强水墨的丰富性和多变性，充分释放水墨的能量，这与我在水墨表现内涵是一致的，我的制作程序一般包括三个阶段：1、以写画开始，几乎只沾水不沾墨，强调笔势、笔力，注意纸的肌理反应，控制墨色的变化和纸的肌理变化;2、皴写、积墨、染画结合，逐渐明确图式;3、明确图式的空间结构关系，反复的积墨、用喷染的方法表现光的效果、不断调整水墨的空间关系，整个创作过程以综合性质的复合性手段完成。

　　Zhang Yu: In terms of materials I still continue to use the traditional media, maintaining the purity of ink-and-wash and using only xuan paper and ink. My tools are the brush-pen and scrubbing-brush. However, airbrushing is a new technique that I have used. In certain very special circumstances I have used red and gold acrylic colour. I used red and gold colour solid blocks to set up a confrontation, clash or tension against the overall colour of black ink. With this factor of confrontation I strengthen the richness and changeability of the ink-and-wash, fully releasing its potential, which is identical with the expressive content in my ink-and-wash. My sequence in making these works usually involves three stages. First, I begin by ‘writing’ the painting, almost always dipping the brush in water, not ink, emphasizing the style and vigour of the brushwork, and paying attention to the reaction of the texture of the paper, and controlling the changes in ink colour and in paper texture. Second, I integrate texture, add ink, and work on colour gradation so as gradually to make the scheme explicit. Third, having made the structural relations of the space of the scheme explicit, I repeatedly add ink and use an airbrush to express the effects of the light, constantly adjusting the spatial relations of the ink-and-wash. The whole creative process is completed by means of integrating yet composite devices.

　　黄专：谈一个大一点的问题，中国画在经历了80年代“穷途末路”这类肤浅的现代主义理论的冲击后，你认为它的发展面临的最大课题是什么?这个课题主要是文化性的，还是艺术性的?

　　Huang Zhuan: Coming to a greater question, after the impact of Chinese traditional painting exhausting the shallow theories of modernism in the 1980s, what do you believe is the greatest issue that faces its development? Is the issue mainly cultural or artistic?

　　张羽：在我看来，当代水墨的发展与推进，面临的最大课题就是对水墨文化的本体论的重新认识和具有当代性的建设。将传统水墨方式有效的进行现代转换。换句话说，就是传统水墨如何在本土文化与当代文化之间的共同支点上发现新的生长点及可能性，在保持本土气质的基点上如何使水墨更具当代思维特性和现实批判品质，当然，这里还包涵语言品质转换问题，水墨作为一种语言或一种文化符号，蕴含着某种超验性和精神性，其实它具有不依赖其他任何物象独立表达现代思维特征的人格特征能量。另外，每一个时代这一本体论表述方式都应是独特的，所以说，当代水墨画的本体论建设不单是一个艺术问题，更主要的是一个具有针对性的文化问题，它是一个如何呈现文化精神的问题。

　　Zhang Yu: In my view, the greatest task that the development and promotion of contemporary ink-and-wash face is the renewed understanding of the ontology of ink-and-wash, and its reconstruction with a contemporary character. It is to carry out an effective modern transformation of the formats of traditional ink-and-wash. In other words, it is about how traditional ink-and-wash will discover, in the shared fulcrum between local culture and contemporary culture, new points of growth and possibilities, how it will, from the starting-point of maintaining its local temper, enable ink-and-wash to have more contemporary characteristics of mentality, and realistic qualities of criticism. Of course this also includes the problem of transforming the qualities of its visual language. As a visual language or cultural sign, ink-and-wash features a transcendental and spiritual character. In fact, it has the characteristic power of human dignity that is independently able, without relying on any other physical image, to express characteristics of modern thought. Besides, the ontological format by which each age expresses itself should be unique, so that the construction of an ontology of contemporary ink-and-wash paintings should not only be an artistic question, but even more importantly should be a targeted cultural question, a question of how to present the spirit of a culture.

　　黄专：据悉，明年初你将参加由美国瑞曼基金会组织的一个中国当代实验水墨联展，而这次展览的主题是“重返家园”，请问你是如何看待这个主题?你认为它与你目前的实验工作有联系吗?

　　Huang Zhuan: I have heard that at the beginning of next year you will participate in a group exhibition of Chinese contemporary experimental ink-and-wash, organized by the Rim Foundation in America. The title of this exhibition is Returning to Homeland (held at the Gallery on the RIM in San Francisco in 1996). May I ask how you see this title? Do you consider that it is connected with your current experimental work?

　　张羽：我以为，“重返家园”这个主题的含义是以本土文化和精神取向为基础，重新确立东方艺术在开放和多极的新的国际环境中的方位，寻找水墨画的文化支点，它反映了一种积极的文化态度，我赞成你的这种理论观点：就重新确立中国当代艺术在新的世界地缘格局中的方位这一目标而言，“重返家园”只应是一项文化策略，水墨画的文化支点应该确立在具有本土特质的当代性这一点上。

　　Zhang Yu: I think that the implication of the theme Returning to Homeland is based on local culture and spiritual orientation. It is about re-establishing the art of the east in the new orientation of an open and pluralistic international environment, and finding the cultural fulcrum of ink-and-wash painting. It reflects a positive cultural attitude, and I approve of your theoretical viewpoint. As for the goal of re-establishing Chinese contemporary art on the orientation of the new world geographical pattern, ‘returning to homeland’ should only be a cultural strategy. The fulcrum of ink-and-wash culture should be established on a contemporary character with local characteristics.

　　我目前的《灵光》系列，其文化支点和艺术图式的表达与“重返家园”这个文化主题比较贴切，我希望从语言和精神两方面将水墨画引入一种既具本土特征又具有当代批判品质和开放特性的状态中去，我认为在多极的世界文化格局中只有这样才能真正保持水墨画的文化身份和国际身份，《灵光》系列中所折射的矛盾状态和崇高、静穆的整体气氛也许反映了我对中国当代水墨的一种理想：使它成为一门真正意义上的新东方主义艺术，但，它是超越东方与西方的。

　　The expression of the cultural fulcrum and artistic schemata of my current Inspiration series matches this cultural theme of Returning to Homeland rather closely. I hope, from the two aspects of visual language and spirit, to draw ink-and-wash painting into a state that has both local characteristics and a contemporary critical quality, as well as characteristics of openness. I believe that in the cultural pattern of a pluralistic world, this is the only way to really maintain the cultural and international identity of ink-and-wash painting. Perhaps the state of contradiction refracted in the Inspiration series, as well as its overall lofty and solemn atmosphere, will have reflected my ideal with regard to Chinese contemporary ink-and-wash: to make it a new orientalist art in the true sense, yet transcending east and west.

　　黄专：你的确是一个具有理想主义色彩的人物，这不仅指你的创作，也指你自80年代中期以来从事的许多社会性学术活动，你曾先后赴俄罗斯、比利时、香港举办个展和联展，主持编辑《国画世界》、《二十世纪末中国现代水墨艺术走势》等丛书，你能从这两重身份上谈谈你对当代水墨“走势”的看法吗?你认为它真有进入人类当代文化对话的可能性吗?

　　Huang Zhuan: You really do have an idealistic bent. This refers not only to your works, but also to your pursuing several academic activities of a social nature since the mid 1980s. You have been to Russia, Belgium and Hong Kong during this time to hold solo or group exhibitions. You have also presided over editing World of Chinese Traditional Painting, Trends in Chinese Modern Ink-and-Wash Art in the Late Twentieth Century and other publication series. On the basis of these two identities, can you talk about your views on the ‘trend’ of contemporary ink-and-wash? Do you believe that it really has the potential to enter into a dialogue with the contemporary culture of all mankind?

　　张羽：的确，使古老的水墨文化艺术方式转换成为新的能够代表我们时代的当代水墨方式，一直是我的理想，自80年代中期至今我一直都是一个积极的参与者，这首先是出自一种强烈的感情需要、文化热忱和作为一位当代艺术家的责任感。90年代当代水墨实验有了长足进步，形成了抽象性和表现性两大线索，这种实验的进步还表现在艺术家更加关注自身社会环境和文化状态，强调个人语言实验、生命体验与水墨画发展的国际命运及当代走势的统一，使水墨画在视觉张力、语言能指上更具有开放的可能性。

　　Zhang Yu: Indeed, to transmit the ancient cultural and artistic format of ink-and-wash into a new format of contemporary ink-and-wash that is able to represent our era has always been my ideal. From the mid-1980s until the present, I have always been a positive participant, which primarily comes from an intense emotional need and cultural enthusiasm and from the feeling of responsibility that comes with being a contemporary artist. In the 1990s, contemporary ink-and-wash experimentation made great progress, and formed the two great streams of abstraction and expressionism. The progress of this experimentation was further expressed in artists paying more attention to their own social environment and cultural situation, stressing the experimentation with their individual visual language, and the integration of life experiences with the international destiny and contemporary trend of the development of ink-and-wash. This gave ink-and-wash an even greater liberating potential in terms of visual tensile power and scope of reference in terms of visual language.

　　我们今天的艺术实验应对我们的文化命运负责：我们不能以放弃水墨文化特性为代价赢取西方的认同，本土性与当代性的同一是水墨参与平等的国际文化对话的前提，挖掘、移置、挪用、结合和重建是水墨画语言新规范和本体论建设的几个有机环节，只要我们能在人类世界的多种文化传统中去体会，在自身的传统文化品质中与当代现实文化品质中找到融合的切入点，不管是冲突、碰撞、还是矛盾，其实一定会有其融合点。只要我们能保持这种清醒的主体意识，实验水墨是完全可能成为当代东方艺术的文化与当代西方艺术的文化之间的，就是共性与差异的当代艺术样式，这将是在当代国际进行平等对话的方式，对这一点我是非常的自信和乐观的。

　　Our artistic experimentation today should take responsibility for our cultural destiny. We cannot win the recognition of the west at the cost of abandoning the cultural characteristics of ink-and-wash. The unity of local character and contemporary character is the precondition for the participation on an equal basis by ink-and-wash in an international cultural dialogue. Excavation, relocation, diversion and reconstruction are integral parts of the new norms and of the ontological construction of the language of ink-and-wash painting. All it takes is for us to be able to experience it in the pluralistic cultural traditions of the world of humanity, and to seek an entry point into the integration of our own traditional cultural quality with the cultural quality of contemporary reality, whether by conflict, collision or contradiction. In fact, there will certainly be points of integration. All it takes is for us to be able to maintain this clear subjective consciousness, and experimental ink-and-wash is completely capable of becoming a mode of contemporary art of similarity and difference between the culture of contemporary eastern art and the culture of contemporary western art. This will be the format of carrying out an equal dialogue in a contemporary and international setting. I am exceptionally self-confident and optimistic on this point.

　　Translated Wen Zai/AEMcKenzie 2011-12-21