Hi艺术：去年一年您参加了许多展览，从美国制造到中国山水您经历的怎样的变化？
　　王：去年真的是很忙的一年，在美国、德国、 俄罗斯、香港都有展览，有点累但也是非常充实一年。关于美国制造事实上我只是通过选择政治事件作为一个母体，引伸出一种文化态度的问题，即在全球一体化中，如何强调自身文化的独立性与自主性的问题。以及我们针对自身的文化发展与建设，何时能够自主生存，自主判断与自主发展的一种提示，我不过是从一个艺术家的角度，对西方的文化与政治，及全球化的影响说了声“不”。并对所谓西方强调的人权与民主提出一点质疑。从绘画本身来说，它仍然是在西方文化发展与传承的一个巨大的悖论的语境下所形成的艺术观念与表现手法，有点象用自己的矛戳自己的盾。就微露主义与这不是中国山水事实上也没有太大的变化，语言表现体系是一致的。但关注问题的出发点有所改变了。
　　Hi Art：For the past year you've participated in many exhibitions. From Made in USA to Chinese Landscape, what has changed for you?
　　Wang：It really was a busy year with exhibitions in USA, Germany, Russia and Hong Kong. I felt a bit tired yet very satisfied. About Made in USA, I simply chose political events as a carrier to explicate an issue about cultural attitude, namely, how we can enhance our cultural independence and self-determination in the face of globalization. It is also an inquiry into how we can achieve the self-development, self-determination and self-judgment on the matter of cultural construction. I am just saying "no" with my work to the influence of western culture and politics as well as to globalization as an artist. Moreover, I've also raised questions about the human rights and democracy advocated by western countries. In regard to the paintings, it is all the same: an art conception and presentation method formed in the context of antinomies of western cultural development and inheritance. It's like using the opponent's methods to defeat the enemy. As a matter of fact, Minor Bareness doesn't have too much difference from Chinese Landscape since they share the same visual language system.  However, the starting point for us to consider the issues has changed.
　　Hi艺术：您的绘画图式的变化是怎样形成的呢？
　　王：我在95年以前大部分都是画抽象的作品。95年去美国参加了一个展览后，就想画一点带有形象的东西。事实上这种工作从93年的部分抽象作品中已有了一些体现。因为那个时候多元文化及后现代的拼贴及挪用早已广泛流行。我当时还是想从视觉构成本身出发，并加强一种涂写，绘画与拼贴的组合感觉。在图像选择上大多是对中西方绘画传统经典作品的复制，再加上中西方文字符号的组合，使它们有机的结合在一起。有点像多种小招贴的随意组合，同时也强调了手工书写。99年以后开始改变这种书写拼贴的图式，觉得它的表现性太强，想消除一部分绘画性的东西，画一点工整，更平面化的东西。于是便开始画花布传统图案的作品。构图的样式也变得更简单了，有点简单得像两个大箩筐，装的东西总是在变，而不变的是这两个大箩筐。就这样这种构图的方法在99年以后便开始了。基本是从挪用拼贴入手，同时做一种文化比较性的研究。西方传统与现代，中国传统与中国当下的文化，中西方文化与政治等等。凡是我感兴趣的问题都往画面里画。这其中包括泛商业化的一些问题。例如对于“微露主义永放光芒”文字符号的引用，事实上是一个时尚服装设计上的概念，而“永放光芒”似乎就是有了一个模糊性的政治概念，加在一起形成了某种荒诞的可能性，是消费给我们带来的力量，改变了我们以往的恒定的某种信念。
　　Hi Art：How do you achieve the transformation of your patterns of painting?
　　Wang：Most of my works before 1995 are abstract. Then I went held an exhibition in the USA in 1995. After that I wanted to paint something with figures. Actually, part of my abstract works after 1993 already had some of those characteristics because at that time multiculturalism and postmodernism collage-works and appropriation had been broadly popular for some time. I was hoping to focus on the visual composition and strengthen the combination of graffito, painting and collage. Regarding the selection of pictures, I usually duplicated traditional classics of China or the West and added to them organically with the combination of characters and symbols. It was a bit like a random assembly of various posters with an emphasis on the handwriting. It was in 1999 I started to change this pattern of writing and collage. It was too expressive, so I wanted to reduce some of the brushwork and paint into something more meticulous and complanate. That's why I started to create those works with traditional patterns on printing fabric. Besides, the composition was much less complex than before. The pictures looked rather like being composed with two big baskets. The contents in the two baskets were protean and diverse, and the only constant was the basket.  With this method of composition, I started with collage and appropriation and investigated cultural comparisons at the same time. I would put anything that interested me into my painting, such as comparison of Western traditions and modernization, comparisons of China's traditional and contemporary culture, as well as the cultural and political conflicts between the West and China, including issues about pan-commercialization. For example, the quoting of the character symbols "minor bareness shines forever" is actually an idea borrowing from fashion design. "Shine forever" seemingly endows the picture with ambiguous political characteristics. Together they bring forward certain absurd possibilities that consumption would bring us power and change our faith.
　　Hi艺术：我们注意到了从微露主义到这不是中国山水是yes与no的转变。
　　王：这是一个有趣的事情，一次在上海源弓先生的家里与彭锋先生有一次谈话。当他看到我的美国制造这批作品后，就著文《让我们也恶搞一把美国佬》并和我提到马格利特的作品《这不是一只烟斗》。他说：“如果改成这样的否定疑问句会更有意思”。回来后我就开始画了“NOT MADE IN USA” 和“这不是中国山水”并引起了我对中国文化传统的思考。就中国山水来讲它是以一种文化意义的象征，代表一种传承关系，以及对传统文化的认识程度，在我们记忆中的山水是：“天遥来雁小，江阔去帆孤”“断桥斜日归船”“斜日杏花屋”，又如元朝饶在论山水画中所谈：“或林下透见，而水脉复出，或巨石遮断，而山坳渐露，或隐破陇，以人物点之，或近室内，以竹树藏之；庶几有不尽之境”而在今天这样的山水也许早已是封存于我们记忆中的山水了，物是人非了。全球一体化完全在一种强势资本与强势意识形态的输出中，悄然地改变着我们的生存环境与生存方式。对于处在发展中的国家来说提高平均生活水准的GDP水平，远比保留传统生存方式的意义对于大众来说更为现实。在我们得到了丰富的物质与感觉与身心的快感同时，我们却失去了永远无法挽回的文化传统的优良品质。所以我在谈到中国山水时，已不在是传统意义上的中国山水了。
　　Hi Art：We notice that from Minor Bareness to This is Not Chinese Landscape there's a transformation from affirmation to negation.
　　Wang：That's interesting. Once I had a conversation with Mr. Peng Feng in Mr. Yuan Gong's home in Shanghai. Seeing my series of Made in USA, he mentioned Magritte's "This Is Not A Pipe" to me and wrote an article titled with "Let's tease the Americans for once too" later. He said it would be more interesting if I changed the sentence into a denial question like Magritte's. It was after that I started to paint the Not Made In USA series and This Is Not Chinese Landscape series, and began to ponder about China's cultural tradition. Chinese landscape painting, as a symbol or cultural significance, represents the inheritance of traditional culture and our recognition level for it. Landscape in our memory is "the small figure of a wild goose in the distant sky and the lonely sailing ship on broad water"; it is also the "boat paddling back through a broken bridge in the sunset" and the "small hut embraced by apricot trees outside the setting sun". Just as Rao Ziran of Yuan Dynasty said in his paper on the theory of landscape painting, Chinese landscape is like a lane. It may be ambiguously seen in the forest and suddenly appear with the water vein, or cut off by a huge rock and from which a basin gradually arises in our sight; it may disappear in remote hills so that we can only find it by the traces of human disturbance; it may as well be near our residences, hiding in trees and bamboos, while we may never be able to see the end of it. However, mountain and waters like that may have been concealed in our memory and we can only present it to our mind. Globalization is totally changing our life circumstance and styles with capitalism and overwhelming new ideologies. For those who live in developing countries, increases in the average GDP is more real and drastic. When we become materially rich and indulge in physical and mental pleasures, we lose the unredeemable cultural tradition and fine qualities forever. Thereby, the Chinese landscape I talked about is no longer the Chinese landscape in traditional sense.
　　Hi艺术：就是一种对传统的否定吗？有没有从另一个层面上的强化？
　　王：这正是我想要作的事情，这种在文字上的否定之否定，事实上是希望强调传统文化存在的重要性与¬它视觉观念上的意义。这种否定我是希望在一种不确定中，使文字带有一种多义性来，或在模糊意义与肯定意义中形成新的解构性的东西出来，在更深的层面上重新认识传统与当代生活之间的关系，让人们从精神上形成一种不确定的思维倾向。怀疑，肯定，吸收，还是放弃昨天的或是今天既有的一切现成的思维及审美方式。使不同的观者都能从我作品中找到他们所喜欢的不喜欢的东西。
　　Hi Art：Is it a denial for tradition? Has it been emphasized in another level?
　　Wang：That’s exactly what I was trying to do. I was hoping to stress the importance of traditional culture and its significance for visual conception with the words of denial. By that denial I wanted to give multiple meanings to the words, or generate something deconstructive between vague definition and confirmative definition, by which we could get a new understanding of the relationship between tradition and modern life and consequently an indeterminate intension of thoughts would take shape for people's spirit.  Should we go through the process of question-confirm-absorb, or should we just give up our existing methods of thoughts and aesthetics? I think every viewer would find something they are fond of and something they detest.
　　Hi艺术：在您的作品中我看到许多网络、优女图片及商品小广告，您为什么选择这种图像来处理您的画面？
　　王：中国山水是中国潜在的心理活动，是一种移情，是一种极阴性的文化，它所传达的多是改变之后的色情，性，象征形象，它与西方的表述是不同的。它过于内敛含蓄，但如仔细分析也不难看出中国传统对阴阳文化深层次的解读。而今天我们生活在网络时代，我们都知道互联网及图像给我们带来了什么，改变了什么，而这种优女时尚的图像几乎代表了我们文化的浅层、大众消费时代的到来。而时尚手册的广告则在更多的层面上代表着全球一体化的消费模式的形成。它们几乎就成为了广泛的、深入人心的、铺天盖地的视觉形式。不仅仅是在互联网上，还是电视上，常常会被这种消费广告粗暴的打断，迫使你原有的观看方式，不情愿的注视它。它们是今天的消费文化中的经典形象。当有一天我们回忆今天的社会给我们留下了什么的时候，我们会记忆我们的消费。无论是精神还是物质上的。这些形象能更多的相对准确的代表这个时代的某种文化特征。而中国山水中我选择的图片大部分是宋、元时期的作品，是中国山水文化的经典之作。把时尚网络图片与中国山水并置在一起，使它们形成一种鲜明的比较，形成强烈的视觉及心理上的叛逆，以此来提示今天的社会及生活，对我们自身传统的影响及对我们自身文化的改变与伤害。
　　Hi Art： There are a lot of pictures of the internet and showgirls and commercial posters. Why do you choose them for your painting?
　　Wang：Chinese landscape has potential psychological effects upon Chinese natives, it is a sort of empathy and extremely feminine culture. It usually conveys transformed images of eroticism, sex and symbols, which makes it different from the western expression. It is rather implicative and ambiguous. Nevertheless, with deep analysis we would see China's traditional profound understanding for the culture of Yin and Yang. At the present time, we live in a time of the internet, and we are all aware of what the internet and this connectivity  has brought and changed. Those images of fashion and showgirls indicate the advent of superficial mass consumptive times. Meanwhile, those fashion pamphlets for advertising indicate the formation of consumption patterns during globalized times at even more levels. These images bombard us on a daily basis. Not just on the internet, but also on television - we are constantly and rudely interrupted by all kinds of advertising. We have to change our way of watching and look at these loathsome ads. These are the classic images of today's culture of consumption. Some day in the future when we look back and see what society has left us, we will think of our consumption, no matter mentally or materially, because these images veraciously represent certain cultural characteristics of our times. For Chinese landscape I mostly chose paintings of Song and Yuan Dynasty, which are recognized as the classic masterpieces of China's landscape culture. Our culture has suffered the changes brought by contemporary life and society. To put fashionable pictures and Chinese landscapes together in direct comparison I am trying to create a scene of treacherous visuality and psychological disturbance, I am hoping to remind the viewers of that kind of change and loss. 
　　Hi艺术：近年在您的作品中总是有许多的圆点与涂抹的大笔触，是您有意设计的符号吗？
　　王：我不知道算不算是有意做的。说起这个事情，应该是在96年我去德国汉堡参加一个国际视觉艺术周的活动。我做了一件装置作品《中国规则》是一幅中国传统纸牌，上面有许多圆点，几并几并的形成不同组合，后来我就觉得这个圆点很有意思，就把它用在了作品中。当初是为了平衡构图，后来发现它的意义远远超越了构图上的平衡关系，而起到一种消解意义的作用了。后来为了消解画面的一些内容过于直接性，又加上一些涂抹的笔触，用于取消画面主体形象所带来的确定性的因素，使画面能变得更扁平一些。同时从一个新的平面中，把从网络上截取的图片有机的联合在一起构成一个新的模糊、不确定的形象带给观众。今天几乎无法超越观念与图像给我们的影响，观念越强烈的时候也就是我们的艺术作品质量低劣的时代，不知道我们何时能走出观念、走出图像。而泛商业化对我们生活及艺术自身的影响，也远远超越固有的传统意义上的信仰，没有什么比全面商业化对我们社会的改变更重要了。
　　Hi Art：Your works of recent years always feature dots and big blocks of daubed brushwork. Do you design these symbols?
　　Wang：I don't know. This reminds me of the Visual Art Week hold in Germany in 1996. I joined the exhibition with an installation project named "Chinese Rules". It was made up with a pack of traditional Chinese cards with a lot of dots on each piece which can be arranged in different combinations. I felt the dots were very interesting so I used them in other works later. At first I was just using them to balance the composition of pictures. Then I found it could mean so much more than the elements in composition and can function in the deconstruction of meanings. Later, in order to reduce some of the directness of the picture content, I added some casual brushwork to remove the elements of certainty brought by the main body of the painting and make the surface look more visually flat. Meanwhile, I put pictures captured from the internet together in random combinations, and finally presented a new ambiguous image with uncertainty to the viewers. Today we can barely stay away from the influence of images. Furthermore, pan-commercialization's impact on our lives and art is way more than a traditional inherent faith for us. There's nothing more powerful and influential for our society than  pan-commercialization.  
　　Hi艺术：您长期工作生活在沈阳，您如何保持与主流文化的联系呢？
　　王：有主流文化吗？我从来没有和什么主流文化联系过。什么是主流我也不太清楚。艺术家在哪里都一样，多元的网络，交通工具的便利，早已把人们的距离拉近，个人的秘密及个体的生存空间越来越小，你只要做了事情，几乎就没什么人不知道，陈冠希不就是一个例子吗？艺术家还是应该把自己想做的事情做好，这是最为重要的。东北虽然不像京城这么热闹，但它是可以让你安下心来做事情的地方。况且这里也有一大批优秀的艺术家，他们一直都在努力的工作着，每个地域都有各自的优势吧！一方水土养一方人吗！我在东北挺好的。
　　Hi Art：Since you live and work in Shenyang, how do you keep in touch with the mainstream culture?
　　Wang：Is there a mainstream culture? I've never been in touch with any so-called mainstream and I don't know anything about mainstream either. Location won't make any difference for artists since the internet and convenient transportation has made people much closer than before. There is less and less space for individual living and privacy. As long as you do something, people will know about it. Is Edison Chen a good example of this? The most important issue for artists is simply to produce our best work. The Northeast may not be as lively as the capital, but it's the place for you to get down to your work. Besides, there are also plenty of outstanding artists here devoted to their works. Every place has its advantages. As the saying goes, every homeland has her own way to nurture her natives! I feel good living in the northwest.
　　Hi艺术：谢谢王老师接受我们的访问。
　　王：谢谢Hi艺术。
　　Hi Art: Thank you for the interview, Mr. Wang.
　　Wang：Thank you, Hi Art.

作者：HI艺术