Guests

　　LIU Libin: Art Critic, Curator, Associate Researcher at Central Academy of Fine Arts

　　YAN Hong: (pen name) Fruit, works in Media, Curator, Writer

　　Ren Sihong in Conversation with Liu Libin and Yan Hong aka. Fruit (1)

　　Where does "Enlightenment" come from?

　　Fruit: The person on the left is the artist Ren Sihong, and right next to me is art critic Liu Libin. As what we see, Ren Sihong is dressed up very fashionably. In fact he has a dual personality. A week ago, I asked him "why did you invite me to here?" He said he would have an exhibition opening on September 5th at Whitestone Gallery Hong Kong, it's entitled "Enlightenment". When I heard of this I got goose bumps immediately. Even at this moment, I could still feel this word strongly, it makes me thought of "awakening", "illuminating" and "wisdom", it's something I really like. Then I think of his works, also his new works in recent years. As a person works in media, I come with questions - first of all, why is the exhibition entitled "Enlightenment"? Secondly, when I think of this conversation among the three of us, I think about Ren Sihong in three tenses - the past, the present and the future.

　　Sleep

　　Ren Sihong: I always perceive myself uncultured, however as I'm an artist, I learned about culture through my emotions, and learned that Chinese culture is originated from culture of the universe, therefore it works from top to bottom, and perhaps, it's like raining, it just hits me without planning, and as I see it as precious water, I would take a sip or two for sure.

　　In fact I've been working in art for a long time, and I've been thinking what purpose it has. I'm not sure why I enjoy doing this so much, and if you keep asking, it would be what purpose I have. As an artist, what can I do? As what Liu has spoken with me, the art scene nowadays seems flourishing, at the same time it's degenerating as well, and I'm "on the run" too. Therefore for a couple of years, I've been hiding, and I've been asking these questions, surely, it's a coincidence. There was one day when I was sleeping, and I felt like I wasn't sleeping, I was rather becoming "awakening". I'm very surprised that when I woke up I understood a lot of things, these paintings seem to be coming from nowhere, but then I figured it is from "logic of emotions". When I was discussing the theme of exhibition with Whitestone Gallery, they thought I was talking a lot about "awakening" and "enlightening", also since the word has profound meanings in Chinese, that it could arouse many possibilities. Therefore, the exhibition is entitled "Enlightenment".

　　From Grief to Enlightenment

　　Ren Sihong: We often say the core value in Buddhism is "compassion", I also once thought human was like buddha. Today when we worship the Buddha, we don't necessarily ask for peace, it is more about awakening our intelligence. In the past three years I've had so much thoughts towards "grief", therefore I came to a conclusion that enlightenment comes from grief. On the other hand, one will embrace kindness, which comes from understanding. We could keep searching for the origin, as if it's searching for the true self. It's probably not myself, it's the truth of everyone, but I'd like to find my origin, and build a relationship with it.

　　From Emotions to Enlightenment

　　Ren Sihong: Three dimensions is fine, but when entering in two dimensions, the meaning becomes less. So I've been thinking how to portray dimensions better on a two-dimensional canvas.

　　If you look at "words", they are even more two-dimensional, however they have deeper meanings, since words are coming from what Liu Libin just said, traditions and value. It is not about passing it down, but about tracing the origin. Because Chinese culture is very special, it originates from the universe, it's important to search for the roots. I don't know much about culture, and I think after Fu Xi (the originator of Chinese culture) all that have been produced are derivatives. It means we are all his descendants. Even though I have my father and my grandfather, I have to leave them out - we have to think that we are all individuals, and it is the same for our children as well, what they are looking for would be something I don't know. So, I believe the concern of what art does is "fate". Speaking of "fate" in the Chinese sense, one will be connected to culture, for what culture records are "principles", which contains "morality" and "rationality". Chinese culture is considered complicated among all other cultures in the world, but why? Because the way up is difficult, while the way down is easy. When you're going along, you'll find "fate" is not disturbing, but things that involve men are. Interaction with human beings is quite annoying for me. As for Art, it's fate for me. Another artist said that I've been thinking too much, but I was confused, it wasn't too much effort for me - is Art a philosophy? Is Art an ideology? Or even high technology? I think these are nonsenses. Art is just art, it's simple but it could also be difficult. If you feel enlightened then just do it.

　　Shui Guo: Act upon emotions.

　　Ren Sihong: If you're enlightened and inspired, you would be able to act; if not, you wouldn't. This is about human nature.

　　Ren Sihong in Conversation with Liu Libin and Yan Hong aka. Fruit (2)

　　Through Looking by Heart

　　Ren Sihong: We are human beings, this is a condition. However, what makes the differences between each of us? Differentiated by wisdom or appearances has its limitations, for they are what we could see with your physical eyes. Let's take Liu Libin as an example, he's not conventionally a good-looking person, but what he makes is superb. Therefore art is not like a decoration, it has to go through your physical eyes, and reaches your heart, and through your "eyes of heart" it could dissolve in your own space, then let it out, so more people would resonate with it. To understand this is not through physical eyes either, since it shall not be superficial, but it shall brighten up your mind, with wisdom. The understanding shall be mutual, otherwise we won't be able to understand each other. While you, he or she and I have different senses, but when we all feel something towards one thing, that means we could reach mutual understanding towards it. However is this good or bad? Do you think cows are better than human beings? It's almost impossible to talk about good or bad, and I prefer talking about "kind" or "evil", for this measurement is not two-dimensional, it has a higher existence. When we're chitchatting, what we're really talking about is "men", which is a gift from the heaven and the earth. Then what's the heaven and the earth? I believe it is where Chinese culture is rooted. And I think I'm becoming more cultured because of this process of painting and thinking.

　　Painting the Middle

　　Ren Sihong: In Chinese, "Hua" (painting) is a very important character in Chinese, for in the middle there's a cross. The cross connects five dots. Besides, in Chinese culture, when we talk about "solutions", it is set in a "square", the square has four dots, representing four positions, and the space it forms resembles to the universe. The four positions provide a strong support, therefore it gives birth to four gods. For example, the East position is associated with the Blue Dragon, and it also represents the Spring, which brings wisdom and hope. So, we talk about wisdom in the East. If you want to produce, you will need to sow seeds, and it has to fit into the climate. Say if you want to grow corns and grains, Beijing is suitable, but if you have to grow bananas in Beijing, they won't survive. We often say culture of the East and the West, or in Chinese, we buy "Dong Xi"(the East and the West). We don't talk about these in the term of "Nan Bei", which is the South and the North. This is because the North and the South have their own representations, mostly to do with "heart". We also have a position in the middle in the Chinese culture, where all people come together as a middle ground. It leaves out the boundary in Art, just as there's no boundary in the universe. I believe this is the biggest contribution that Wisdom of the East could bring, and I hope to incorporate this idea in my paintings.

　　Ren Sihong in Conversation with Liu Libin and Yan Hong aka. Fruit (3)

　　What Does An Artist Do

　　Ren Sihong: Artists are different from thinkers or philosophers, they are not like scientists either, but artists have an instinct, a nature, it's something that I can't explain clearly, but art has this function - it might be lack of thoughts, but it provides possibilities for thoughts. It is a form that is less known to you, and you might think that I've painted water deliberately, but the truth is that I'm just "scribbling". My instincts, naturally, illustrate a "basic instinct". On the perspective of culture, water is called water in three dimensions, and correspondently, it is "wisdom" in Confucius' theory. You can see for gold, wood, water, fire, and earth, they correspond respectively to righteousness, benevolence, wisdom, courtesy and trust. This means on another dimension, they have other different correspondences. Also, we're always talking about "positive energy" these days, it is about the possession of five elements. In three dimensions, the five elements are "gold, wood, water, fire, and earth", as on a higher dimension, they would be "benevolence, righteousness, courtesy, wisdom, and trust". Furthermore, the Chinese character "Zheng (正)", meaning positive, contains five strokes. Similar idea also applies to what I just mentioned about the "cross", the shape of it connects five points. When you look at the core of Chinese traditions, it is about "five virtues". Therefore, we artists shouldn't be just creating works, but should also create values, qualities and moralities. You could say it's creating energy as well. It is a channel to obtain profound connotations. Such a channel builds one's sensation of "awareness", it may also bring out "enlightenment" and "senses". It is a kind of "food". In most cases, some people can digest this kind of food, while others simply can't. Those who are fond of eating this food somewhat need communication to carry it on. The preference for food varies from people to people, so… suit yourself. But it is rare "food", extremely rare. Everyone shall cherish it.

　　The Power of Art

　　Ren Sihong: Art is a pronoun that has integrated many intrinsic functions. Let's trace back the origin of art to date; where have these things gone? What role has it played in human history? Don't you know the answer? Let's take Vantican and Rome as examples, Bernini, Raphael and the likes have created a "magnetic field" for these spirits. Rome is so powerful that it keeps people, and the legacy is so abundant and visible to us. Also, China's Imperial Palace, which was the emperor's residence, it is not something you see every day. Keep them! They're valuable. They shall be preserved and be appreciated. Can you guarantee that today and tomorrow would be good days? Start from today, do good, and morality shall be preserved.

　　Liu Libin: Yes, agreed.

　　Ren Sihong: The energy you left for others is what is still being used. Here we are, looking at a cup from the Song Dynasty. Why are we so passionate and what is so inspiring? It's from appreciation and admiration, also because it is a cultural product ─ a heritage! Therefore, another feature of art is that it represents a person with objects. I like this a lot. Fast forward to years later, how long can these things be kept? In time, they will become smoke and ashes. In the era that people can be triggered and panicked over anything, I feel more energetic, stronger, and more inspired. It's a counter-force, which is quite encouraging. It's not just shouting slogans, but also it's being our true self.

　　Ren Sihong in Conversation with Liu Libin and Yan Hong aka. Fruit (4)

　　Formless

　　Ren Sihong: The term "void", as we often say, comes out of nothing, and has no teacher. It is governed by non-interference and is invisible. So, what is "void"? Simply put, it means to "possess" everything, and it has no specific name, thus is called "void". If we're talking about abstraction, let's first talk about these two concepts in visual culture - "form" and "image". "Form" is how I perceive you, while "image" is your inner self. As this "image" is intrinsic, why would you want to "abstract" it? Therefore I don't like to call it "abstract", it's a pseudo proposition; "formless" is probably a better way to call it. And I hope we could find something in "void", and understand how it happens to you.

　　Fruit: From zero to something.

　　Ren Sihong: I think it's called "serendipity". Our ancestors talked about "serendipity" several thousand years ago. Today, what is its scientific demonstration? ─ Quantum entanglement. While quantum entanglement is a phenomenon, serendipity is its original saying. Did we program to be together today? No, but here we are. Personally, I dislike talking about the past because we are familiar with the past ─ that is, the past is interwoven with the trajectory of our lives. However, "serendipity" is far beyond one's past. Maybe "serendipity" in a way is your real past and present. We still have the future we hope for; namely, serendipity existed in the past, the present, and even the future. About my work, I won't say that I am satisfied with what I have accomplished. I feel glad that I could make more progress. Moreover, I'm delighted with the trajectory of this process. Let it be, it would be nice to have such a life. My business has nothing to do with others', and vice versa, that's OK. It is again about what does Art do. We want to provide a possibility.

　　When you have a good soul as an artist, and  you are willing to "go out", that is, to project your "image" rather than "shape". The more you focus on the "shape", the thing becomes smaller. "Formless" could somehow be a "form",  so if you look at the saying "there is no wisdom tree", that's because wisdom doesn't come in form, it doesn't exist in three-dimensional space, no matter how hard you try to find it. What Art does is that it brings people to deep affection of souls.

　　Flowers Blossom for Heart

　　Ren Sihong: "Spirit of Flowers" started from the second day of Chinese New Year.

　　Fruit: This Chinese New Year? During the pandemic?

　　Ren Sihong: Yes. During the pandemic, I am usually alone in my spacious studio, and I feel excited about my world every day, but I'm also overwhelmed by this strange pressure that keeps pushing inner of my body. So, naturally, I thought of "open my heart". So, when I open the door to my heart, and welcoming things, I feel happy. And when I close the door and feel secure, I take care of my heart. So at this point I thought about "flowers blossom for heart", since no matter how it blooms, it has to find its heart. However I'm afraid that my heart is not enough, so I wish for something with greater energy will help me, therefore I named this series "Spirit of Flowers".

　　Fruit: A fully blossom.

　　Ren Sihong: Yes, it is. While I was painting, I felt that the energy was enormous. I felt magnificent, and I wanted to depict this scenery that one would be overwhelmed by the energy, it's almost like a "wave". So you can see that it is very enchanting, without any restraints. Of course, if my physical condition were better, there will be more energy. It also adds a dimension to the feeling I just mentioned. Let it "act", and the action will have its own purpose.

　　Ren Sihong in Conversation with Liu Libin and Yan Hong aka. Fruit (5)

　　Falling in Love

　　Ren Sihong: Well, you know, artistic talent has nothing to do with your appearance, but it has everything to do with your talent and your own self. Do what you're supposed to do, isn't that beautiful? So, it's important to respect yourself in the right way - if what you respect is in the eyes of the others, not the real you, it would be a problem. Are you really a pile of shit if the others see you this way? Just think about it...so it has to come from our own judgment.

　　Fruit:  An artist must be themselves.

　　Ren Sihong: No, everyone should be himself or herself, but an artist is more transparent. Some people claim that they sold their physical labor and wisdom, but the artist sold their souls. So, do what you want, what are you afraid of? In other words, the soul you betrayed is talent, which is very valuable. So please don't degrade art…I've loved art for so many years, without knowing the specific reason. Look at me - is it difficult for me to make a difference? Why am I reluctant to leave it? There is a reason, and I figured it out in the last three years - I'm in a relationship with it. This is the reason.

　　Fruit: Pleasure comes from the heart.

　　Ren Sihong: I always tell people that I don't have any strength, except for my unique painting talent, so I must have purpose in this world. You may consider a person unserious or dandiacal because they don't know what the "right way" is. This "way" shall be the passage of soul, it's a navigating tool coming from the Eastern wisdom. Learn from it and make use of it.

　　Do you think artists make a lot of money by painting? I think a lot of great artists are the poor ones, because they are too experimental, they are leading the way and too far from reality. That's the reason why they are not making a lot of money. In the time of "the Internet", many options are provided. I use my intellect and my freedom to choose. No one shall be forced to make a decision. Speaking of falling in love, you "fall" for it, meaning you sacrifice and you contribute. As for art, if you fall for it, you give your talent and your soul to it. And you reshape your own universe with senses, from "the greatness without border", to "the smallness without a substance".

　　Make Love

　　Ren Sihong: Using "kindness" as it is. If you use it, it is everywhere. Like "love" is everywhere. I've advised many people who asked me what to do, I would respond, just "make love". To "make love" is not what we call sex, but it is to do everything that is to do with love. So where does it emanate from? For example, one says "I didn't do anything, I just made a cup". But if you make it with love, it's spreading love. If you keep crafting it with love, it will turn out to look beautiful, and it becomes very interesting. If you use hate and bitterness, then you have taken a hard way. It is all about yourself. You place yourself in a tough position and want to drag people in? That's no way!

　　Ren Sihong in Conversation with Liu Libin and Yan Hong aka. Fruit (6)

　　The Future Has Arrived

　　Ren Sihong: I take a turn when I'm struggling -  just like the "Bagua" (the eight trigrams) and the "Four Gods" we're referring to, there's always a corner added to each position so it helps one to turn. It tends to be difficult when taking a turn, since it's about changing the fundamental. I believe it's important for the world today to learn about the fundamental, but not just doing things out of habit. You probably think you have good habits, and there's no need to change. However, when you need to change, think about kindness and make a turn, things will be fine.

　　If someone is looking good, tell them that they look good. If they are not and you still say so, that would be a lie. Everyone has some kind of strength, so you can find it in yourself as well. Sometimes many people think that one thing is good, and it becomes a common understanding that it is good. Art doesn't lie with its appearance, it's not a pretend, it's very transparent. All of your sensations - pain, entanglement, passion, and encouragement, are illuminated and visible to us. They can't be hidden; they are easy to spot.

　　Liu Libin: The state of an artist can be seen at a glance if you look at his work.

　　Ren Sihong: Just like Liu Libin had ignored me earlier, then I sent him two photos, and he ran here. Isn't that the way things are? He never liked my rawness, but how about this time? As a scholar he has high standards. Scholars don't generally talk about people, however affairs that are associated with people can help you make money. Scholars tend to discuss matters that are on a higher level, and you can differentiate scholars by the matters they focus on. When they are struggling, just let them be. There's no need to be upset about it.

　　Artists need to be critical with themselves. When others are criticizing you, you take them as kindness and make use of it. You don't obstruct problems of future with problems of reality. This is the highest level of criticism.

　　Liu Libin: Didn't I mention that the future has arrived, don't obstruct it.

　　Fruit: Exactly.

　　Liu Libin: In my opinion, the one who obstructs this trend will have many regrets.

　　Fruit: And I think that Ren Sihong is the true "Avant-garde".