[Forward] Xiang Jing's works had huge influence in recent years both home and abroad, and have accordingly raised discussions and criticisms. There even exist disputes when it comes to the acknowledgement and positioning of her artistic creation, which also provides us a chance to look into some aspects of contemporary art.
　　Part one: The Paradox of Feminism
　　Wang Chunchen: After reading various criticisms about Xiang Jing, I felt that people tend to talk of her works from various angles, such as language, personal feelings, experiences, the morality of the artist, and the levels of public acceptance. Although they see her work from different perspectives, there are always something that they cannot get around, such as body and feminism. Thus, we hope to find out certain questions through this assembled discussion, to make out a certain direction, so as to dialogue with her or challenge her from our owm perspectives. Contemporary art always emphasizes not only language and form, but also the broader cultural and social background behind.
Hang Chun Xiao: That is the Problématiques of contemporary art.
　　Zhai Jing: I think we cannot disperse our questions too much. Focusing on some central topics will help to make an in-depth discussions.
　　Wei Xing: You may raise a question first for us to start. What interests you most?
　　Zhai Jing: The most interesting thing for me right now is: what on earth is the attitude of Xiang Jing towards feminism? I think your attitude is pretty ambiguous: on one hand, you said this exhibition is a conclusion of feminism and your final reference to this issue; while on the other hand, you don't see yourself as a feminist. So, what's your attitude towards feminism after all?
　　Xiang Jing: First of all,  I've never declared this exhibition a conclusion of feminism. However since so many people asked me about the relationship of my works to feminism, I started to think about this relationship. But in fact I am more interested in human nature. And I am only interested in this, because being alive is something of big importance. I haven't particularly studied feminism, and I feel this concept something existing within the logics of western culture. The issues it concerns have nothing to do with what happens here.
　　Some magazines may publish a feministic feature; some galleries and museums may organize exhibitions of female artists or bring about some feministic topics, but all of them make me feel disgusted. No real questions emerge from them, which is always the same group of people. This is why I always deny myself as a feminist.
　　Zhai Jing: This is why I'm interested in you. Looking into your works, especially those in Naked Beyond Skin, I found you frequently regard body as your central issue, while body is exactly what mostly discussed when people talk about feminism these days. But in fact, feminism is a small problem. In broader sense, it can be regarded as a post-colonial related issue, referring to a specific marginalized group, to which we pay close attention as we do for other marginalized groups, such as minorities and homos. (By the way, as for the catalogue of Naked Beyond Skin, you seem also concerned about homosexual groups). A common characteristic of these groups is using body as a medium. That's why people always link it with these marginalized groups whenever the body issue is raised, and interpret the artist within this framework. So I think whether or not you subjectively want to talk about feminism, this is an unavoidable topic which will always been raised once people look at your works. As you know, once a work is born, it grows independent of the original intention of its author, and will be faced with an enormous sea of interpretations, or you can call it the death of author. This also applies to your works. You have noticed this for sure, and that's why you used female body, a strong and clear medium, to explore this theme on such a big scale. From my point of view, this is exactly your paradox, don't you agree? 　　
　　Xiang Jing: I didn't intend to make it into a feminist subjed to start with ,so I didn't systewatically put all sorts of problems into this field including homosexuality. What I concern is still human beings and the not-yet-materialized human natures that present our inner qualities after being stripped of our clothes. I concern this more than the marginalized. Take masturbation as an example. I don't think only marginalized people do that. This is something that everybody can do.
　　Zhai Jing: As an artist, you surely have your own starting point. You may think what you are only concerned with is issues of human nature, but in this current context, since people have some instinct reaction upon seeing a female artist. When a piece of work is accepted, the human nature side that you concern might be hidden, while the feministic side might stand out. This is something rather obvious. In other words, when your works are presented, people's first reflection would be 'this is a work about body,' followed with 'Xiang Jing is a feministic artist,' whether you agree or not.
　　Xiang Jing: For me, this is a basic stance of my art creation, if you insist. Since I am a woman and I choose to make female figures, and female bodies in particular, I make these works from a woman's perspective, as a first person. Female does not serve as an object, something to be looked at, or a feministic other. It starts with I said, voice from women themselves. This also applies to my works on female bodies. First of all, a proper attitude shall be rectified, that is, the female body here is not those female bodies that have been looked at throughout art history, but a female body that infers the existence. This lays the foundation of this series of works.
　　Zhai Jing: I fully understand your standing point: when you create a body, you start from your personal psychological feelings, and created it as a first person. Last time when we talked, Xiaochun said that what you make is just sculptures, but you denied it. You said, 'what I made is just such a work, whether it is a sculpture or not does not matter.' But when a spectator who knows nothing about all that you said looks at your works, he sees a piece of sculpture at first sight; a human body sculpture at second sight; a female body sculpture at third sight. When it comes to feministic topics, the situation is relatively the same. What kind of methods you think can be applied in this case?
　　Xiang Jing: This is de facto existence.
　　Zhai Jing: You don't care how others see you?
　　Xiang Jing: All art has to be faced with educated audience, but you still have no choice but to speak. To me, the process of competition is a journey to the inner world. I create human bodies to pull audiences back to human beings.
　　Hang Chunxiao:Zhai Jing, I felt you have exaggerated this point. Why do we always criticize an artist from the issue of gender? I don't feel it necessary to focus on the topic of Xiang Jing as a woman, because the art history today is a history of genre. Whether a work will enter the art history is decided by the kind of genre that it adopts. Also, feminists writing art history often use gender factors as the criteria. I find it something totally unnecessary. Whether an artist will be distinguished in art history is determined by his artistic skill, not gender. If you want to look for concealed artists and new possibilities in art history, you shall also look for hidden stylistic factors, instead of individual factors. What's the point of using gender as criteria in entering art history?
　　Zhai Jing: I guess you totally misunderstood me. In fact, what I tried to do is not to make you focus on the fact that 'Xiao Jing is a woman', nor using gender as a criterion in entering art history. As we all know, feminism, and post-colonialism in broader sense, is not an art history issue, but a sociological one. For instance, it makes no sense for feminist art historians only to compile a feminist art history based on gender, independent of the mainstream art history. 　　But why they still do it and are tolerated by others, despite the fact that everybody knows its narrowness? This is exactly because the notion of a history of genre as you just mentioned is also not objective and universal. It also holds some presumptions as to what is good, what is sublime, what is great, what is a master, what are the genres and innovation that worth promoting. You cannot call it an objective criterion, because it is made up of various complicated factors and judgments, and these judgments often have nothing to do with art itself. There is no such thing as pure eyes. That's why some female artists are re-discovered. They may not make high artistic achievements, or perhaps many of them may even be proved to be valueless. But the fact that they are veiled is undeniable, and it is mainly because of their gender. We have to firstly recognize the existence of this group before we talk about their values. Maybe the current work went a bit too far, but it is certainly needed. Even if all these artists turned out to be of no value, at least one thing is confirmed: they bring about social issues that have seldom been concerned or never learnt, which is exactly the ultimate meaning of feminism. Back to Xiang Jing, I surely agree with you that she shall not be seen just as a female artist. She is significant even within the existing genre sequences, but you still cannot avoid that, Xiang Jing cannot break away from her identity as a female artist, at least not now. After all, this is not her problem, but what we see from her situation and status quo.
　　Hang Chunxiao: It is not only female artists who are obscured, but some outstanding male artists as well, because they don't belong to the mainstream genres. Hasn't it been proved that artists are selected by art history, not based on their genders but on their genres?
　　Zhai Jing: This is exactly what I meant. I am not narrowing myself to females only, but all those concealed and once existed or latent possibilities in art history and the history of culture.
　　Wei Xing: I think it an ideal assumption in art history research, which has blinded many people. But History will always have her choice.
　　Hang Chunxiao: There lies certain inevitability in the choices of history. Since we exist within a timeline, the sequence of development is surely there.
　　Zhai Jing: Of course, history possesses certain inevitability. But the cultural and art history we are talking about now is different from history. It has more possibilities, and has more space for overturning or retouching. Isn't it the very part of art history that attracts us? There is no finality in art history. Instead, it is full of ups and downs, full of changes, and constantly refreshed and inspired by new perspectives. I think this is where its charm lies, or, we can say,'nothing is impossible.'
  　Wang Chunchen: Another thing here is, do not fear feminism. Feminism is not great scourges. It particularly needs to be discussed in the Chinese context. Although these years see some works adjacent to feminism, the amount is still not big and the thoughts are not fully expressed and communicated. So it is not that we have too many feministic arts, but too few. The fact that Xiang Jing's works are appreciated and judged from feministic point of view shows that there is firstly a certain connection between her work and feminism, which remind people of feminism unconsciously; secondly, since Xiang Jing's work raised this feministic discussion, then we shall further think about the position of feministic arts as an important genre of contemporary art within the entire Chinese art scene today. We shall not skirt around this point just because feminism remains in an embarrassing discourse today, or simply fear to take up a feministic perspective.
　　Zhai Jing: Exactly, why do we fear feminism?
　　Wei Xing: I don't, because I simply feel that there is no feminism in China at all.
　　Zhai Jing: Then do you know what I am afraid of right now? What I fear most is Xiang Jing being written as a feminist artist within a feminist art history. Nothing depresses me more than the fact that however outstanding or mediocre a female artist is, she will always be sorted into a female art history. I am glad that you said there is no feminism, but that's exactly the goal of feminism. Although it seems far away right now to reach this goal. If one day we are no longer forced to talk about feminist issues, in which I actually have no interest, I would feel very much released.
　　Wang Chunchen: Now there seems to be a dilemma here. Wei Xing said there is no feminism, and what he actually wants to question is the significance of feminist research in androcentric society. The reality is also the case. Feminist art seems to be made up of everything created by female artists, and once it comes to the work itself, it always seems to have something to do with bodies. Body is surely an important issue, if not a whole field in contemporary art. Those contemporary arts which don't touch body cannot reveal real problems. Not to say Chinese traditions, even in ancient western or Islamic societies, body has also always been a taboo. It is only through the development of the society and the deeper understanding of human beings towards themselves, that people start to grow conscious of the construction of their self images and rethink of the construction of body in the past, thus, a broader and once neglected scene is discovered. It is not that only art history concerns the issue of body, nor only art history talks about feminism, but the entire history of human civilization concerns these two problems: body and feminism.
　　We are discussing feminism and body not to overshadow something else or overturn the androcentric society. Instead, it is a way to rediscover ourselves and realize our concern to the reality. When artists create works concerning bodies, we see how they think over this issue. As to Xiang Jing, her work is about body. If she keeps herself away from feminism, and tried to challenge the mainstream view towards feminism, her works might be different. From this prospective, we cannot ignore people's thoughts when they saw her works. On one hand, they avoid the common view of feminism through presenting bodies, while on the other hand, they can still be seen as feministic at the same time. In fact, such works is consisted of the way how it is looked at. The original purpose of the artist and the interpretation from the audience can be separated and further discussed in terms of its extended meanings. The dilemma starts when we say Xiang Jing did not escape the framework of feminism.
　　Zhai Jing: The problem is why when Xiang Jing argues that she is not making female bodies, but individual bodies, bodies in the first person, people still reflects that this is a female body, or a masturbating body?
　　Wei Xing: I've also seen those works you mentioned, and what I saw is not just female bodies, but the expression of the figures and the revealed emotions and thoughts.
　　Zhai Jing: You are a professional, but we need to think about a broader audience. Why not change our mind and look it in another way. The fact is whatever Xiang Jing said, there are always people thinking about feminism at the first sight of her work.
    Xiang Jing: To tell the truth, I worked for more than ten years to escape this definition.
　　Wei Xing: But in vain.
　　Zhai Jing: That's the problem.
　　Xiang Jing: I can absolutely make it.
　　Zhai Jing: I am really looking forward to that. I am expecting your upcoming works, those that will escape feminist framework as you said. To be frank, I would like to say that I doubt it.
　　Xiang Jing: I have always been thinking: why feminism is seen as a taboo for so many Chinese women artists? Many of them are not willing to be regarded as feminists, including you, I guess.(laugh)
　　Zhai Jing: I am indeed not a feminist. I am not trying to pretend or whatever, but it's just determined by my personal interest. If you ask me whether feminist research is of any worth, I would say yes. But if you ask whether I am interested in doing feminist research, I would say no, because I am not interested in it.
　　If you ask why people see feminism as a taboo, I think it's pretty simple: firstly, we are still in a androcentric society in which all women artists, critics and theorists live, and it is surely unpleasant and harmful to label oneself as a feminist; secondly, feminist research in China, especially in terms of theories is rather shallow, if I may say so. Mostly, researchers just indiscriminately copy and apply western theories, with no consideration of Chinese reality. Although some researchers are working in this field, their researches are rather superficial and even of no significance. Thus, theorists, rather than artists, should surely be blamed of.
　　Wang Chunchen: That's why we shall develop theoretical researches rather than remaining in this stage of translation or even mal-translation. We shall not listen, but also see with our own eyes, and read the original documents. China cannot lag behind in international feminist theoretical studies. We have always been crying to make progress and creations. Independent theoretical construction is also a big task.
　　Zhai Jing: There's an interesting phenomenon in China. The sense of independence of women in China has never been self-generated. Rather, it is granted by someone else: when Chairman Mao said “now time is different, men and women are all the same … women can take charge of half of the world”, they are instantly levered to the same position as men. This is pretty unique in the world.
　　Zhai Jing: Don't you think it is just an increase in labour? (Laugh)
　　Wei Xing: Feminism of this kind is in fact against human nature. Females of the same images as males, with the same revolutionary spirit and hard working, are not suitable for their characteristics, either psychologically or physically. This is also anti-feminism.
　　Zhai Jing: I don't think this way. Still, we have to overcorrect to make it correct.
　　Xiang Jing: But liberation of this kind has increased the burden of women. Besides the burden from the family, they have to take up the pressure from the society.
　　Zhai Jing: This helps women get rid of the reliance on others, since they will feel stronger once they feel themselves can still live a life without males. Not like what happened in the past, women cannot live without men. Even abundance in materials, they feel hollow inside. Thus, it is better to feel tired.
　　Xiang Jing: I agree with what you said. It is after all an androcentric society, nobody wants to be labeled as feminist, either man or woman.
　　Wang Chunchen: This is where real artists and theorists shall transcend. We shan't get away from real feminist art creation or research due to the thoughts and prejudices of the secular world.
　　Wei Xing: But women are different from men in that women have a stronger sense of reliance. In fact, an androcentric society is not sustained by males only, but many women as well.
　　Xiang Jing: I agree with you in this point. Many female artists' works are actually anti-feminism, catering for the power of males.
　　Zhai Jing: This anaclisis is only a reaction towards the existing gender structure. Why shall female artists cater for the male power? For they need to exist in a male-dominated society. This psychology is close to that of a white-collar lady who has to please her boss and clients. Her gender role is something that she can not get around. Thus, all cultural behaviors, including art creation shall center on the existence, and all theoretical arguments shall also finally come back to this issue for their roots. I am doing researches on post-colonialism and was quite convinced about it. All disadvantaged groups are facing primarily the issue of most basic existence, from which their culture, arts and theories were engendered. 　　That's also why I said that feminism in art history research is a sociological question in its roots. Not only artist, theorists have more works to be done, and on more fundamental levels.
　　Wei Xing: Then do you regard theorists have bigger responsibility than artists in Chinese feminist art creation, critics and researches? Theorists shall also be blamed of the low level of feminist research?
　　Zhai Jing: I do think so. Just as what Chunxiao said right now, the research level of domestic feminist art history studies is only about digging up several female artists, arranging some exhibitions with few audiences, and churning out some rubbish articles. If theorists cannot make in depth studies in the theories, how can we expect artists to create something insightful and meaningful? If theorists remain on the stage of crying out slogans, we shall not blame artists for just making use of female bodies for meaningless art works.
　　Wei Xing: I absolutely believe that feminism is something worth further researches and work.
　　Zhai Jing: So do I. Thus shall theorists and artists do as well. Work of artists shall be paralleled with that of theorists. They shall deeply explore the profound problems of feminism, reflect these problems, and try out their way to question it and provide their answers, instead of just playing with sexuality.
　　Xiang Jing: You are right, that's really nonsense.
　　Zhai Jing: I really expect you to fulfill this task. It's regretful that you are not willing to volunteer.
　　Wang Chunchen: Feminism is a sociological issue, and what artists shall do is largely similar to the works of sociologists. This is also one of the major characteristics of the contemporary art: Questions First. We are faced with so many issues and problems that we shall make efforts to make more observations and read more academic books, while talking less gossip. We are here today to discuss Xiang Jing's work, so as to set off for this basic works. We start with Xiang Jing now, and later we shall enter into a broader reading of Chinese contemporary feminist arts. I shall say that this is not purely a passive work, but a positive and creative work.
　　Zhai Jing: I think we shall have this confidence.
Part two: The Paradox of Body
　　Hang Chunxiao: May I ask a question: How many of your works involve the participation of your husband?
　　Xiang Jing: None.
　　Hang Chunxiao: But I always see you two together on the websits.
　　Xiang Jing: That's just gossips. (Laugh)
　　Hang Chunxiao: If your husband is involved in your art creation (of course it is not true in reality), I think we can skip this topic at once. You know what I am thinking? Because these works are made by Xiang Jing and Xiang Jing is a woman, thus we are talking about this problem now.
　　Zhai Jing: Don't you think here comes to problem?　　
　　Hang Chunxiao: Let me take another example, maybe not really proper: if you look at Li Xiangqun's sculpture Maid of honor, and suppose Li is a woman, how would people talk about it?
　　Xiang Jing: Women won't make this kind of things.
　　Hang Chunxiao: You can't say women will never make this kind of things. Once you make such a judgment, it means there is something that only women will do.
　　Xiang Jing: I surely believe so. But I also realized a way to escape from this identity issue. That is to face this issue and clarify this issue as much as I can. This becomes a kind of self conscious. This is not some final issue for me, but just an entrance.
　　Zhai Jing: The problem is you can never escape from your role and identity.
Xiang Jing: When I was young, I have been thinking for a long time why I shall live. The second question is why I am a female. Both questions puzzled me for a long time. I felt this fact has no reasons. When I grew up, I gradually found that females exist as a sub-gender. I simply cannot accept this kind of thing.
　　Wei Xing: This argument is totally feministic.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Now let's talk about it in this way: what Xiang Jing's work would be like if she were a male?
　　Zhai Jing: Then his work would definitely have some other meanings.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Xiang Jing, could you elaborate a bit about the possible differences?
　　Xiang Jing: I cannot make this assumption since I can't be a man. I feel I am ruling out this assumption all the way when I am working. What is of significance to me is that I gradually learnt to face the fact that I am a woman. Till this day, at my age, I am still holding exhibitions because I want to solve this question. Now I am no longer faced with this issue. It's over.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Does it mean that you no longer want to be a woman?
　　Xiang Jing: No, it is no longer a gender issue if I go on to be a woman. It is no longer an identity problem, whether in my life or creation. This is like a big relief to me.
Zhai Jing: In fact, you have never been faced with the question of being a woman.
　　Xiang Jing: I am always faced with this question.
　　Zhai Jing: Just didn't use it as your starting point.
　　Hang Chunxiao: But it is a natural starting point.
　　Xiang Jing: It has always been a natural starting point, because I always say it is an entrance, and I have to get into from here.
　　Zhai Jing: An entrance that you do not want to get in.
　　Hang Chunxiao:Something you cannot escape from.
　　Xiang Jing: It is not that I don't want to, but I know this is part of the road, and I will definitely walk towards a further and broader way. I always exist as a human being, but I have to face the fact that I am also a woman in the first place, whether I like or not. Now that I can finally accept and like it, I found that only through this entrance can I reach some broader place and understand real human nature.
　　I always think that female problems in China are more complicated and serious than in the west.　　Lv Xufeng: Actually I think there is certain helplessness when Xiang Jing asks herself why being a woman.
　　Wei Xing: She is talking about a sub-gender position.
　　Zhai Jing: You may find her quite paradoxical. On one hand, she really thinks female a sub-gender, in which case she is quite conscious about this gender issue. But on the other hand, she has been always avoiding this question. I think I fully understand this embarrassment.
　　Wang Chunchen: As a post-colonial researcher, do you want to say that all disadvantaged groups are faced with this embarrassement?
　　Zhai Jing: Exactly. (Laugh)
　　Hang Chunxiao: If you don't mind, I would like to say something else: for example, when a woman is having her period, she may ask: why am I a woman? When she is in deep pain and sorrow, she may ask: why am I a woman? What about man? When a man is in pain and sorrow, he will not think about 'why am I a man?' He will naturally face his own pain and sorrow. In other words, is this another kind of hurt that society gives to man? Because women can always think themselves as being unfairly treated, but men can't.
　　Zhai Jing: That's not the case. I don't want to discuss the question of fairness between men and women at all. My question is fairly simple: I don't want to discuss feminism but why further discussions? I myself have totally no sense of gender. I just hope that finally I am not forced to face this identity as a Female. I really don't
want to talk about it more.
　　Hang Chunxiao: But still you have to talk at last.
　　Zhai Jing: For example, I hope that when Xiang Jing is creating her works, she no longer faces the question of “why am I a woman?”. When I look at her works, I also don't want to think about “Xiang Jing is a woman”.
Hang Chunxiao:Because you, as a woman, have these thoughts looking at Xiang Jing's works. When I look at her works, I feel more like the word teased.
　　Zhai Jing: You used the word teasing, which totally conflicts to your original meaning. This word shows that you are talking from a male-gaze: women's bodies, men's gaze.
　　Xiang Jing: Objectification of females.
　　Zhai Jing: That's the word: Object. Xiang Jing said her work is not object, but from Chunxiao's view, it is just an object.
　　Xiang Jing: For example, female audiences have totally different feeling from male audiences when faced with your work Your Body. Female bodies always serve as objects that are gazed and customary in art history.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Maybe, but when I am teased, I see apathy.
Xiang Jing: This is the rejection of being objectified.
　　Hang Chunxiao: This is a kind of apathy. Behind apathy, I see another ego; behind the teasing of her works, we see the kind of hidden apathy, this apathy of blindness, finally arrives at the journey of ego state.
　　Xiang Jing: Teasing only exists in a bisexual society. But I only want to start from a female's point of view.
　　Hang Chunxiao: You see, once male is involved, Xiang Jing is naturally turned into a feminist, which is quite understandable. (Laugh)
　　Xiang Jing: This is my fundamental stance, because I cannot suppose myself as a male to look into a question. I can only speak and interpret the world as a woman.
　　Wang Chunchen: I think what we talked today is very good, and it provided a tentative interpretation towards Xiang Jing's work. It also reflects several possible attitudes:  seeing identity through body, or seeing feminism from identity. All these seem to be connected.
　　Zhai Jing: Xiang Jing is not going to make any feminist works from next series on, but I am also very interested to know if Xiang Jing can really move beyond this stage, since you have never really tried to work as a feminist. This seems not just your personal issue, because your identity is not something given by yourself.
　　Xiang Jing: It is possible, but I am not totally sure.
　　Zhai Jing: I feel that you are passively confined in this framework. For example, if I am a totally innocent audience who knows nothing about you, when faced with your work, I will naturally look through the view of the social trends, even if you have already made the bodies cold and apathetic, made them ego, you still cannot get rid of your embarrassing identity. You still look teasing to him.
　　Hang Chunxiao: No, I was talking about three levels…
　　Zhai Jing: I know. You are an insider. I am just supposing myself as an ordinary audience whose first reaction cannot be the same as yours.
　　Xiang Jing: From certain perspective, teasing is also a power of resistance. From my point of view, all things including pornography, teasing, gazing and beauty, all these can become a power of resistance.
　　Zhai Jing: Of course they can, but these are not what I am concerned with. You are an artist, he is an art historian. You two are all insiders. Faced with a piece of work, you can interpret whatever way you like. But why not think about these novices? When they are looking at you, they probably cannot see the apathy and ego, but a teasing object, a female artist, and that's all.
　　Wei Xing: But the question now is the framework we are talking about is basically within the scope of insiders and experts. Nobody has a pair of innocent eyes, thus you cannot suppose yourself as an ordinary audience.
　　Xiang Jing: I especially enjoy observing others looking at my works in the exhibitions. I always think that art is like a mirror, through which the viewer sees himself. I also particularly hope that my art can provide me this kind of physiological reflection, far more complicated than teasing.
　　Zhai Jing: I think you've misunderstood me, Wei Xing. What I am talking about is not the question of insider or outsider. Actually I am now trying to discuss the acceptance of Xiang Jing's work and her identity's influence (which nobody can get around) to it. Xiang Jing may work on something else later on, even without referring to body at all, but her identity will still have effect on the acceptance of her work. I can even make a little prediction: by that time, the public reflection towards Xiang Jing's work may not differ from now. Do you believe so?
　　Hang Chunxiao: Due the art history training background, she is able to change angle and take different perspective towards this kind of work, including sponsorship and the history of audience acceptance.
　　Wei Xing: I don't think this way. I think it is not the question of how audience sees the work, but she, with triple identities of both audience and art historian and post-colonialism researcher. These backgrounds will definitely influence her acceptance and she cannot suppose herself of taking a public stance.
　　Zhai Jing: OK. Now I take my role as a post-colonial researcher. From this point, I can tell you my reflection when I see Xiang Jing's works. Firstly, I know she is a brilliant artist. Secondly, I think she relates to a post-colonial issue. I mean a post-colonial issue in a broad sense: just as I mentioned before, minority groups issue is surely a post-colonial issue. Thus homosexuality and feminism are also post-colonial issues. Now that I look at Xiang Jing's work, my first reflection is: can she escape her female identity? Apparently she can't. The reason is obvious: No matter how Xiang Jing explains, she cannot deny the fact that she is creating bodies, female bodies. I am not quite interested in her original intention, because I think artists' own sayings are not very persuasive, because they are subconsciously influenced by something they themselves are not very clear of. But as a scholar, I'm more privileged in interpreting her, and my interpretation shall be conducted within longitudinal and latitudinal coordinates, while Xiang Jing's personal illustration occupies a rather small proportion in it. In fact, not only female artists are faced with this question. Minorities, homosexual persons are also faced with this question. For example, as a Chinese artist, when attending international exhibitions, can you escape from your identity as a Chinese artist? To most of Chinese artists, if it is not this Chinese identity, others won't buy you. You can not get rid of this role, which is a post-colonial question. Identity does not refer to what Xiang Jing recognize what herself is, but all the individual identities are non-concrete entities composed of various factors and full of change. To use a term, it is called Heterogeneous Collectivity. This is just like Foucault's definition for Narrative. Narrative is a net, and each node has potential influence, and nothing is inevitable. Thus, Xiang Jing's identity cannot escape the specific context of her past, present and future. This is why I insist that she take up this female identity, because this is your context that you can never escape.
  　Xiang Jing: I totally agree! I've finally seen this day.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Is identity issue a post-colonial issue?
　　Zhai Jing: Of course not. There are many ways to talk about identities.
　　Wang Chunchen: What she is mainly concerned with is marginal groups.
　　Zhai Jing: Isn't female group one of the marginal groups, with a huge population?
　　Hang Chunxiao: I understand. You emphasized this identity, but not as a kind of disadvantage, but a sort of feature. For example, you emphasize your identity as a Chinese, and this is a natural characteristic. But, why are we talking about post-colonialism?
Zhai Jing: He asked me to do so. (Laugh)
　　Wang Chunchen: No, he doesn't. He just suggested seeing from a different perspective.
Zhai Jing: In fact I still believe that this question can be studied most thoroughly through post-colonialism.　　Lv Xufeng: I would like to ask Xiang Jing, why are there so many bald heads in your works?
　　Xiang Jing: It is because hair is something technically I cannot solve. Secondly, once one is clothed, he or she obtains a certain identity, and once you make hair for them, you have to think of a certain hair style, which will also become a certain defined role.
　　Lv Xufeng: Do you think that these figures without hair may blur the differences in genders?
　　Xiang Jing: In these works, I didn't want to avoid gender issue at all. However, firstly I felt hair is something difficult to deal with, so I simply skipped it. Secondly, in this exhibition, I want to have a distinct theme, instead of being too much like a daily situation. Thus, without these trivial stuffs, it may become purer and invites the audience to think about its own meaning and not to be disturbed.
　　Wei Xing: Which means to rule out daily connotations.
　　Hang Chunxiao: The question is that you did make hair for your sculptures in the past. So it couldn't be a technical problem, because you've already solved it.
　　Xiang Jing: The issues that were covered by these old works are different from these new ones, which definitely need a new language to think through.
　　Zhai Jing: I think the question he raised makes sense. Technical problems shall never be of the most crucial meaning. The important thing is that you are avoiding something, which I personally think is the identity. Do you want all faces look like one face at last?
  　　Xiang Jing: No, just the opposite. I want all faces look different from each other, just like I made bald not out of the consideration of visual effects, or a strategy to de-gender. I would like to explain as much as I can if given a chance.
　　Wei Xing: Today we emphasize this detail, and Xiang Jing wants to explain here. I find it quite interesting: is she trying to avoid being labeled of an identity?
　　Hang Chunxiao: This is just like when she opposes being regarded as a feminist. I think it is just an attitude.
　　Lv Xufeng: I had a classmate who is also a painter. After he looked at the catalogue, he asked, 'Is Xiang Jing really a woman?' I replied 'yes'. He said when he saw Yu Hong's paintings, he can instinctly tell that it is painted by a female artist, but when he saw Xiang Jing's works, he cannot tell whether it is made by a female artist or not. Why is it?
　　Xiang Jing: What's your idea? What's your feeling when you see my work?
　　Lv Xufeng: If I just read your catalogue, I really cannot tell. I don't feel that eminent
　　Xiang Jing: Do you all share with him in this feeling?
　　Wei Xing: To me, yes. I just deem it a sculpture standing there.
　　Hang Chunxiao: To tell the truth, I didn't know your sex in the past.
　　Wang Chunchen: No. What kind of starting point did you take? Did you guess her gender by her work, or by her name? Her name itself have no…
　　Lv Xufeng: Firstly, her name is quite neutral in gender, and you look at her works that are neutral as well. Thus, I think maybe we can try to look for her differences from other female artists, and the nuances between her works and works of other female artists.
　　Wang Chunchen: Then from your point of view, what kind of works may possibly be created by female artists?
　　Lv Xufeng: For example, we find little clues in Xiang Jing's works that shows strong maternity or other female characteristics, which distinctly different from those of male artists.
　　Xiang Jing: I feel myself always want to disturb the interpretation mechanism. But if you all think my work is neutral in gender, haven't we got back to where we started?
　　Wei Xing: So what's going wrong?
　　Hang Chunxiao: The teasing and apathetic rejection qualities of the works build up the force of her works.
　　Wei Xing: I never think of the artist behind, when I see Xiang Jing's works. These works will not lead me to imagine their author being a woman.
　　Wang Chunchen: In fact, why we suppose feminist artists be female artists? Why can't a male be a feminist artist?
　　Zhai Jing: Of course one can.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Isn't it the figure made by Xiang Jing a woman?
　　Zhai Jing: Neither is this important. The important thing is her identity as a woman is still concerned by others. You may not know the gender of the artist when you look at her works, but you will still ask: 'Is Xiang Jing a woman?' Now this is the question.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Everybody has their own feelings when they see a work due to their different knowledge, experience and background. For example when I see the cover picture of her catalogue, the entire part of that belly is in fact filled with a realistic sensation of sex.
　　Zhai Jing: But I felt it rather abstract.
　　Hang Chunxiao: All the details here, including the navel and the turning point over here, including this line, all these I must say is from a male's gaze.
　　Xiang Jing: I emphasize the subjectivity of expressions. If you really look at that work, it is not that realistic. Maybe the structure went wrong. But you feel realistic because I feel it true. This is not something copied from a photo, but something produced from my subjective description. It may be even closer to reality than cameras. Thus my works look extremely real when photographed.
　　Hang Chunxiao: If you just look at the details, you can hardly think of something else. It's barely a belly. Here you can only see teasing, because it is a detail and the apathy behind cannot be noticed. You can only see this apathy from her head, and from the entire body including the environment it is located. Every work of Xiang Jing refers to the question of environment in its presentation.
　　Wang Chunchen: There always exist some connections behind interpretations. The whole meaning of the works shall be presented entirely, without neglecting the environment. Because the environment and sites are all the components of works, the discussion about a specific piece will not be one-dimensional. If not strongly facing the works, how can we mention the feminist aspect of the work? How can we refer to identity issues? And how can these questions become the base of our discussion?
　　Lv Xufeng: You've said that works shall be problématique. I'd like to know what your problem is.
　　Xiang Jing: To live, that's my biggest problem. The ultimate of your life is your death, which means you are destined to face the process of being alive.
　　Zhai Jing: I felt artists are really different from theorists. Theorists deal with questions in a rather complicated way, while artists take simpler ways.
　　Xiang Jing: Not really so simple. It's just that we have different starting points in our consideration. Theorists make their researches horizontally, while artists make works vertically, digging into deep.
　　Zhai Jing: Thus it is theorists' thing to appreciate works, not artists'.
　　Xiang Jing: In terms of interpretation, theorists must have been more interested.
　　Wei Xing: Yes, to go deep into the works needs interpretation.
　　Zhai Jing: That's why I say what artists explained is not important, but how the work is accepted.
　　Xiang Jing: Artists have no choice but to be drawn into this interpretation system. On one hand they can gain more strategic experience, while on the other hand, we can obtain more knowledge through this experience to keep on resisting. This is also theory's utility of improving.
　　Hang Chunxiao: In terms of interpretation, whether you avoid or not, it anyway raises so many topics, not only from us, but from others, in the future…
　　Zhai Jing: I am particularly interested to see if her future works can really bring together these things.　　Hang Chunxiao: I noticed her previous works have a strong clear sense of identity: students, youth, miniskirts…
　　Xiang Jing: Those were very much empiricism stuffs. I used to feel that I cannot surpass, but now there seems to be some hope.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Her previous works, such as Woman with cigarette and menarche, I can really feel them made by a woman, because men can never think and concern about this kind of themes. For example, Virgin in menarche cannot be substituted with a man, not like a masturbating woman. The latest figures I felt is more humane, which can all be substituted with male figures.
　　Zhai Jing: I feel now we see your process of surpassing personal experience.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Yes, we can see the female experience in my past works, but in the next stage, it is about human experience.
　　Xiang Jing: You may wait and see.
　　Hang Chunxiao: But she was born a woman, thus you can conclude this by her natural instincts.
　　Xiang Jing: I feel the question is shifting, or I am growing. I feel really glad to hear your comments. I used to rely on personal experience a lot before.　　Zhai Jing: That's why female artists always concentrate more on their personal experience, while male artists concern more about social issues.
　　Wang Chunchen: Some male artists, such as Zhu Jinshi who drove a Mercedes to crash the wall in Arario Gallery, or even the great wall, of course you can say that female artists can also make that kind of works, like the French artist Louise, but people will have different views on their works.
　　Hang Chunxiao: That means we are faced with the same works, but the identity has changed…
　　Zhai Jing: That's exactly the point.
　　Wang Chunchen: It is like that in contemporary art.
　　Zhai Jing: Whatever works we are now facing, even a piece of water melon, we cannot get around the fact that
Xiang Jing is a woman when we try to interpret.
Wei Xing: Because no one can surpass, especially art. Since art itself is not a religion. It is not metaphysical. In this sense, artist never surpasses his nation, gender and culture. It is impossible to totally surpass all these.
　　Hang Chunxiao: Another thing is post-colonialism. When you are interpreting a work using identity, this work is really penetrated with identity elements.
　　Wang Chunchen: But how can you explain this: I saw a work by a German artist yesterday. He shot something that we didn't
notice, which is the geometrical pattern of the architectures which is rarely noticed by our eyes. After shot by his camera and transformed for a couple of times, these images do not look like architectures to you at all. You will never use identity to interpret this work. Rather, you will say that it is very rational, emphasizing the structure and organization of the natural world or attempting to find some inner relations.
　　Zhai Jing: That is something different. Xiang Jing's works frequently refer to bodies and each time you talk about bodies, you cannot avoid topics about woman, that's why we are discussing this problem here.
　　Wei Xing: I still think it has a lot to do with who is looking at the works. That's why I said that I can never act as an outsider when I am looking at art works, because what I see must have some relations with my practical experience and the kind of education background I am from. I am always referring to my background and system when looking at things, thus I will never guess the identities of the artists, because I simply don't care. I only look at works themselves.
　　Zhai Jing: I doubt so.
　　Wei Xing: Why?
　　Zhai Jing: If everybody takes this attitude, there will be no feminism or post-colonialism theories.
　　Wei Xing: The question is: it is in fact a sociological topic, which is not released from art history.
　　Zhai Jing: Feminism or post-colonialism are all sociological topics. Once introduced, they serve to solve the sociological ecology problem in the art. If art history only limits itself in its little framework, such as form studies, genre studies, I would feel it rather boring. I don't care about others, but myself feel a multi-dimensional and multi-perspective way of art interpretation can provide more contents and pleasant than art works themselves.
　　Wang Chunchen: This is also the feature of contemporary art studies.