Chen Ke Interviewed by Zhu Tong 　　Zhu Tong: You have been in Beijing for almost a year now. Can you talk about your impression of being here? 　　Chen Ke: Yes, it’s a bit over a year since I moved here. I have just almost gotten used to it. When I came here last year, I was still working on getting my studio right. Now I am more settled down. I can really get down to my work. I have a lot of ideas, concepts for my work, and reflections on art, as well as some changes too. For me, these changes are positive. I feel that I have become more mature in this process. 　　Zhu Tong: Beijing and Chongqing are two completely different cities. You finished your undergraduate and graduate study in the Sichuan Art Academy. You were there for about six to seven years, is that right? 　　Chen Ke: It was altogether seven years. 　　Zhu Tong: can you talk about your impressions of these two cities, Beijing and Chongqing? 　　Chen Ke: First of all, these two cities are very different. When I was in Chongqing, I was mostly living in a rather small area around Huangjueping. Beijing feels enormous to me. In terms of its size and volume, it is oppressing. It’s one of those large cities, in which one is made to feel rather insignificant. You won’t feel this way in Chongqing. The size of Chongqing is quite comfortable for living, whereas here, the scale of the city is not an easy one, not very people-friendly. 　　Zhu Tong: You mean Beijing? 　　Chen Ke: Yes, Beijing. In my mind, in terms of its urban planning and scale, the city is rather overwhelming. The art scene here is also unlike that in Chongqing too. The kind of art produced in Chongqing might seem closer to life and more lighthearted. What artists see and think about in Chongqing might have something to do with the urban life. In my mind, it was like that in Chongqing. When I am in Beijing, my experience is that they (artists) are more sensitive to such issues as politics or the situation of individuals in the society, which is then reflected in their works. Art in Beijing has broader concerns. Artists in Sichuan might be more likely to focus on a small aspect, dwell on it and make works that are very refined. Artists in Beijing might be leaning towards grander narratives. 　　Zhu Tong: Chongqing seems to be very alive as a city, but its art scene is rather self-centered, free and relaxed, not the oppressive kind. In Beijing, you might feel that there is a very diverse art scene consisting of many different international and national art exhibitions in the city. There is the enormous scale and complicated structure of the city as you mentioned. There are all kinds of works created by many artists. This situation might be very different from that in Chongqing. 　　Chen Ke: That’s right. 　　Zhu Tong: When I first saw your works, it was probably in late 2004. I went to visit artists in Chongqing and it was my first visit to Huangjueping. That was a very strange place to be in. There was a very everyday flavor about those slopes and roadsides, with laborers hawking, tasty Sichuan snacks, hustling pedestrians, some of them probably artists and some of them simply passer-bys. It was a lively chaos. But as I entered into the studios of “Shi Yi Jian”, it was totally another experience. There were many artist studios in “Shi Yi Jian”, where I discovered many artworks that seemed to be completely unusual considering the surroundings of Huangjueping – many paintings of “cartoon-like” images. These paintings were simple, elegant, which was a dramatic contrast to the external environment of Huangjueping. I discovered that the young generation of artists studying in the Sichuan Art Academy or living in the academy’s neighborhood worked mostly in this way or that their works generally gave such an impression. However, in Beijing, Shanghai or Guanghzou, many international metropolitans, there was not such a relatively mainstream art phenomenon. You were once part of the Chongqing art scene, what is your view about it? 　　Chen Ke: Hearing what you have said, I begin to find it strange too, but I never thought about this particular issue before. The academic atmosphere in the Sichuan Art Academy is rather liberating, rather than sticking to a very strict academic system. We could play with various styles. I think a place like Huangjueping is still rather closed off from the outer world. For example, the kind of resources we had access to at school was not a lot. There was no existing model we could find there to duplicate. As a result, our works more often originate from our instinct or inner emotions. Animation and cartoon images were something I was often exposed to when I was small. Once I began to work in a free environment, it came out naturally. Another thing is that the environment in Huangjueping was rather structured and lacking in diversity. You would find it precious. That is different from those kids who live in an international surrounding like Shanghai and Beijing. They can access this type of things and as a result become less sensitive to them. Cartoon culture was rather “new” in Sichuan, an ultra “cool” culture. 　　Zhu Tong: Is it the feeling of being alone yet precious…(Laugh) 　　Chen Ke: Yes, it did feel that way. 　　Zhu Tong: The artistic legacy among Sichuan artists has been extremely well known in the Chinese contemporary art circle. For instance, the older generation of artists such as Zhang Xiaogang, Zhou Chunya and so on, has influenced the next generation of outstanding artists, the likes of Zhao Nengzhi, He Sen, Chen Wenbo, and Zhang Xiaotao. But from the works of your generation, there hasn’t been such a continuation. 　　Chen Ke: I think it’s more of an academic temperament and in the spirit of a work. In terms of artistic experiment, Sichuan Art Academy is a place of great dynamism. Everyone is very outspoken, expressing their own ideas. The former generations of artists have been a major influence on us, especially in terms of having a spiritual influence. 　　Zhu Tong: What kind of artistic spirit is that? 　　Chen Ke: It’s the spirit of freedom. Sichuan artists tend to deal with very specific issues in our works, but they always reveal the bigger social background through small aspects. It’s very real and such genuineness can be extremely powerful. 　　Zhu Tong: It’s hard to detect any general perspective in the works of Sichuan artists. Beijingers would call this “beating something to death”, which is perhaps the common feature of Sichuan artists. Going back to your work, do you think the growing popularity of Chinese cartoon artists has anything to do with the influence of Japanese and Korean art, for example, the works of Yoshitomo Nara, Takashi Murakami, etc? 　　Chen Ke: Objectively, their influence has been quite strong. For me, when I first began to make works in a cartoon style, there was actually no information about this kind of art. Only until I saw their works later on, did I broaden my understanding of cartoon. I can relate to their works. I really like Yoshitomo Nara’s work. You can understand what he wants to convey in his work. You can feel that there is no distance from his work. Many European and American artists might be “great”, but you don’t feel that you relate to them. Yoshitomo Nara’s work has a very accessible quality. 　　Zhu Tong: You feel connected…（Laugh） 　　Chen Ke: Yes. 　　Zhu Tong: How do you understand cartoon culture and cartoon art when you look back at it now? 　　Chen Ke: I am quite surprised myself to be assigned to this category. I have no idea how I have become a part of the cartoon scene. It’s purely accidental. But the cartoon, caricature and comic books that I saw in my childhood have influenced me as well. Cartoon images tend to be rather flat, graphic, and little about modeling, and about concise and pure things. It can express one’s feeling very clearly, like graffiti, very directly. Cartoon as an import, exists in our culture as well. It’s actually a way of random scribble. Cartoon culture attracts me because it’s simple, imaginative and unreal. It can provide comfort. It has its reasons for existence. It could be an expression of sincerity, kindness and beauty in the depth of one’s mind. 　　Zhu Tong: Indeed. The rapid development of economy, the crumbling of traditional culture and the increased pressure of living, these complex issues arising from this transitional period of the society force the public to look for safe tracks. The illusive sense of intimacy that cartoon culture evokes perfectly fulfils the emotional emptiness of human beings and becomes the escape for contemporary people. Cartoon culture is undoubtedly a dose of comfort for the adult world. A large number of simplified visual images, its visual symbols that have become part of the mass media, the powerful and recognizable images and humor in cartoon paintings can be identified by people from various cultural backgrounds and regions. 　　Chen Ke: The exterior won’t preclude the contact with the core. You get easily drawn into this concise art form. There are reasons for the existence of cartoon. 　　Zhu Tong: When I first saw your work in your undergraduate exhibition, you won an award, right? Then I went to your studio and saw a lot of paintings. At that time the color of your works was bright and lively. There was a narrative quality in your work. Your previous works had specific images and were very appealing at the first sight. Your paintings have stories now, like stills from theatrical performance. It’s a huge transformation. 　　Chen Ke: One day I happened to see catalogues from my previous exhibitions. I suddenly realized that my former works were really na?ve. My works are as real as my spirit and evolve as much as how I change. After living in Chongqing for 11 years, I moved to Beijing all of a sudden. It was a big change. The time as I entered into the society from the academy, was another point of change. The environment is always the driving force. Every person has been through this kind of stage. How a person changes internally affects his/her paintings. 　　Zhu Tong: In your recent works, I could tell that your works exude a sense of melancholy and solitude. Do you feel lonely at times? 　　Chen Ke: I often feel isolated and powerless. I feel that I am in the midst of a whirlpool and can get lost easily. I am busy all the time, feeling stressed. 　　Zhu Tong: Does this have anything to do with your sexuality? 　　Chen Ke: I don’t think so. I always consider myself an artist, instead of a female artist. 　　Zhu Tong: In the exhibition “Fancy, Dream” in Marella Gallery in March, you used the medium of sculpture for the first time. Would you continue to experiment with other media in your practice? 　　Chen Ke: This is what I have always been meaning to do. One medium has its own limitation. Sculpture as an object in space feels different from two-dimensional images. I have worked with photography before. But because I had no new idea and my partner left, I had to give up photography. I will experiment with a mixture of media in my later practice, allowing my work to appear freer, more diverse and more complete. Whether it’s using one medium or various media is not the primary concern for an artist. Art can be realized through social collaboration as well. 　　Zhu Tong: In the future, one artwork might consist of more than one medium. The limits of traditional media such as painting, photography, and installation and so on are growing more and more blurred, which is a trend. Can you talk about the young artists that you know? 　　Chen Ke: I have been asked the same question about the two generations of artists, those born in the late 70s and those born in the 80s. I believe that what young artists are interested in or their perspectives are getting more and more personal. They tend to emphasize the freedom of the individual. Their approach is more intuitive and derived from their direct living conditions. The younger generation is more willing to think about art as a way of living, instead of a profession or a job. It’s a part of how they relate to each other. They don’t feel very strong about being in the role of an artist. Art is more tightly linked to life. Sometimes it’s very difficult to differentiate these two. Meanwhile, the art practice of the young generation has a stronger international appeal. For instance, in some major international exhibitions, sometimes it’s rather hard to differentiate the nations and regions of each artist judging by looking at their work. 　　Zhu Tong: Just like it’s impossible to differentiate cities like Shanghai, Tokyo and New York. 　　Chen Ke: Totally. 　　Zhu Tong: Actually when you get closer to and look deeper into it, you will find the difference. How do you look at Chinese traditional culture? 　　Chen Ke: Initially I believed that only Western contemporary art was good and Chinese traditional culture was rather outdated. I had this kind of misunderstanding before. Having been through the stage of blind imitation and admiration, I am more tolerant towards Chinese culture now. When facing traditional Chinese ancient painting and poetry, I often feel that I could respond to them from inside of my heart. There is a spiritual comfort in them. I believe that many young people have a similar impression as me. Actually, artistic expressions don’t have to rely on recognizable symbols. To have a traditional spirit doesn’t mean using Chinese characters or water ink. Many things need to be converted. 　　Zhu Tong: In your recent paintings, there is a sense of emptiness and nihility, which is very “Oriental”. 　　Chen Ke: It’s true. I saw an Indian contemporary art exhibition in Beijing a while ago. Many of the works in that show were made in a very international language but you could tell at once that it was Indian art. I guess this is something that comes from within. That kind of temperament is hard to change. 　　Zhu Tong: In the last year, Chinese contemporary art is favored more and more by international and domestic institutions and collectors. Its prices are rising steeply. More and more people like your work. Are you used to the changes that have taken place this year? 　　Chen Ke: The changes have been too dramatic. Sometimes I really feel that the speed of development is really beyond my control. Naturally I am happy that so many people like my works. Actually the art market has very little to do with the artist. An artist’s works won’t stay in the studio forever. Its value can continue to exist elsewhere, whether in public museums or on the walls of the homes of those collectors who like your work. What I care about is how to go on making good works in the next phase. 　　Zhu Tong: I will be looking forward to your new works. 　　Chen Ke: Thank you! 　　The above text is based on a recording of the interview on December 8, 2006.